Yeshiva Sanity: Channukah Days Off

Thursday, December 22, 2011

Channukah Days Off

Noam and YNJ are off Friday and Monday. Yavneh is off Monday, BPY has off at noon on Monday

Whats the deal with that? Is it about giving non-Jewish employees a day off for Christmas, which is on Sunday this year? For that do they need both Friday and Monday? Is there no way the school can function for one day without the non-Jewish employees? I would understand giving the day off on Christmas day itself in consideration to the bus drivers and neighbors but this year there really is no excuse.

We’re working hard to pay tuition bills and we get slapped in the face by schools giving completely unnecessary days off and making it really hard on the parents. No, the teachers aren’t just babysitters but having them in school does in fact perform that function (among other functions).

He’atid announced at the open house that they will have classes on election day (to wild applause). I hope they will also have classes on Channukah. Time to put the needs of the parents and the educational needs of the children ahead of the convenience of the faculty. We have 20 or so less days than the public schools and we should try to make up every day we can.

Comments (43)

Logging you in...

Dashboard | Edit profile | Logout

Logged in as

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

Agree that there are too many days off. But giving off on December 25 or December 26 (this year) when there is some staff out and bussing is always difficult is not the the problem. A bigger issue is interference with a rigorous academic program by taking away too many days. The biggest culprit is chol hamoed Sukkos. There is no reason not to have school then. Many Jewish day schools used to have school then but now the frummer element won't stand for it.

2 replies · active 692 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

Agreed about Succot. And I understand 12/25. When 12/25 is on Sunday maybe I can understand 12/26. But 12/23? I'm at work & so are my non-Jewish co-workers.
-YD

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

Is He'Atid going to have school on chol hamoed sukkos?

0 Vote up Vote down

Anony · 692 weeks ago

Really? A slap in the face? Talk about melodramatic.

You saw what happened in New York when the frummies forced their staff to work on Thanksgiving. You answered your own question, it really is all about beinf considerate to the bus drivers and non-jewish staff. There is bussing, no custodial services and no food. Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

But totally agree with you on 12/23.

1 reply · active 692 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

I'm sorry, but yes - a slap in the face. Try explaining to your boss that you have to take off 13 days for yom tov & then also election day, erev holidays, erev erev holidays when the holiday starts Saturday night, a random day of Channukah, the day after labor day....

Not to mention the educational loss by missing out on all those classes.

It has nothing to do with bus drivers. If it was, Yavneh would have given 12/26 off instead of 12/23. In fact, they give off a day for Channukah every year, even when it falls out in early December.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Hoof Hearted · 692 weeks ago

Ben Porat has school on Monday. Yes, its an early dismissal, but they have school. Why can't the other schools get on board with this?

BPY should get props from their parents and the community for taking the lead on this!

3 replies · active 692 weeks ago

+2 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

I'll give them half-props for a half day. Noon dismissal doesn't really afford any parents the chance to work that day. I will say, in fairness, that Rav Ronen went out of his way to try to get the school back open after the blizzard in October, driving by all day to see if the lights were on. Full props for that.

0 Vote up Vote down

Hoof Hearted · 692 weeks ago

NOBODY is working on Monday! BPY parents get a morning to themselves while their kids are in school!

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

Go to the mall on Monday & you'll see lots of people working. Or a hospital. Or West Engelwood avenue. Or for that matter, to BPY.
-YD

-2 Vote up Vote down

Hoof Hearted · 692 weeks ago

And...your data is wrong. The public schools have 180 days per year- many of which are also early dismissals.

The yeshivot average 170 days, and in my opinion, offer a more rigorous curriculum then public schools (at least in Teaneck)

2 replies · active 692 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

zevmo 48p · 692 weeks ago

How do you define the lack of a 'rigorous curriculum' for TPS?

0 Vote up Vote down

99%Yid · 692 weeks ago

From what people are saying, it seems that the honors track at TPS is pretty "rigorous". What about Bergen Academy?

0 Vote up Vote down

Miami Al · 692 weeks ago

Having school Monday would mean that school starts one day later or ends one day earlier.

3 replies · active 692 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

What are you talking about? Why can't the schools have more days of classes? Even according to hoof hearted its 10 days less than public schools.

0 Vote up Vote down

Miami Al · 692 weeks ago

Separte issue to ask for more school days. However, com paining about 12/26, a national holiday, being off is silly. If you want more school days, fine, but the specific ones on/off don't matter. If you had school Monday (when you can watch your kids), it means one less day in June (when you pay someone else to).

There are REAL costs to deciding to ignore the national calendar. It's not like having school on Thanksgiving/Black Friday/Christmas/New Years lowers your childcare bill, it raises it, because when you could be with your own kids, they are in school, and when they are off (summer) you have to pay someone to be with them.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

1st of all, not everyone is off on Monday. 2nd of all I can understand Monday, but why Friday? & why in some schools a day for channukah when it is in early December.

Finally, why would it mean one more day off in June? We should be trying to close the gap between public schools & Yeshivas in # of schooldays. We should be adding days in December AND June.
-YD

+2 Vote up Vote down

thatguy · 692 weeks ago

You raise an important point. I find YNJ's decision this year difficult but understandable -- they usually have school on 12/25 and 1/1 even without buses and run enough either specialty programming or combined classes to keep the students busy. And they often get excoriated for it because parents resent the driving or the waking up on a "day off." They are giving off this year for Channukah, which is a nice thing (but completely unnecessary -- it isn't a yom tov after all) so they can avoid bus arguments. It is an unwinnable position because of the inconsistency of the correlation of the calendars. Ramaz and SAR have off today because they have begun their vacations (which may or may not be lichvod Christmas and, or Channukah) and MTA has no school because today is Friday but historically, had school on the 25th and 1st.

There should be complete calenderical coordination between schools, upper and lower. I am against school on chol hamo'ed sukkos (yes, I went when I was in elementary school, but my school had a sukkah that housed 500 easily), am for school on election, veterans and flag day. I also think we should have school on channukah AND Purim. Half day on erev sukkot, school on isru chag, no school on erev pesach. And a strict residence policy which counts even excused days and does not give credit for students who have (for an "OK" reason or not) missed over a certain percentage of classes. I want yeshiva week off as inter-session, and no school on 12/25 and 1/1 ONLY because of buses and non-Jewish teachers (if there were a good away around this, I'd do it to have school on those days).

Yes, I'm a teacher and no one ever asks me what i want in terms of a calendar. I don't want extra days off for me or my kids.

+3 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

Based on YD's logic, the schools should have vacation in December instead of January like they used to. Most parents have time off in December not January so why inconenience parents with school vacation at another time. Will He'Atid have winter vacation in January or December?

5 replies · active 692 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva Dad · 692 weeks ago

I would like that! In Westchester yeshivas still have end of December off & no "Yeshiva week" in January. Flip side is that some people complain because ticket prices are higher in late December than mid January.

0 Vote up Vote down

Miami Al · 692 weeks ago

Here is the thing, if you don't want to follow the Christmas - New Years winter break, fine, give off Chanukah instead. You're following the Jewish calendar, and you're in December when businesses in general are slow. January, when everything picks back up, has to be the dumbest time to give Winter Break... if you care at ALL about the parents that work for a living, instead of the wealthy families enjoying a ski vacation.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

Al: It's not about the wealthy families. It's about the need among some in our community to reinforce the believe that we don't do what the goyim do. The wealthy families who send their kids to SAR and Ramaz are quite content having school vacation in December. It's only the crowd that wants to live in a cave that pushed the vacation to January.

0 Vote up Vote down

Miami Al · 692 weeks ago

Again, 8 days of Chanukah gives you a winter break that isn't following the gentile calendar, but IS following the American business cycle and Jewish calendar. There is ZERO Jewish reason to be closed for a week in January.

0 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva Dad · 692 weeks ago

I imagine He'atid will follow the same Yeshiva Week schedule as the rest of BC. Many of their students have siblings in other schools and parents will want the vacation schedule to match so they can go away together

0 Vote up Vote down

411 · 692 weeks ago

The BJE sets the dates for winter vacation.

Also, the yeshiva's don't have 20 days less of school than the public schools. It's really about 6-7.
Public schools have 180, but included in that is the NJ teacher's conference where there are no classes for students.

BPY should get props for leading the schools in number of days of schools and for having school on Christmas. It is their annual grandparent's day. A great day where parents and relatives spend a day , since they have off from work anyway. It is a noon dismissal because most of the parents and grandparents want to do something with the kids afterwards.

2 replies · active 692 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva Dad · 692 weeks ago

18o is the average nationally (http://ask.yahoo.com/20050509.html). That's actual days of instruction. I couldn't find numbers for Bergen County specifically. Rabbi Knapp of Yavneh said how many days of instruction there were at Yavneh & I dont remember the exact amount but it was in the 160's. & the schools follow the same schedule, give or take a few days. So we're at least 11 days short. We should make up every day we can, including the random Channukah day.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

"The BJE sets the dates for winter vacation."

Some schools still have winter vacation in December, when all used to have it then. That's when all schools should have it. Why did we go to a January schedule which inconveniences everyone?

0 Vote up Vote down

Avi · 692 weeks ago

JFS also has off today, so we're scrambling for childcare as usual. The kids are off on Monday, too, but so are we, so that's not a problem.

0 Vote up Vote down

SAR Mom · 692 weeks ago

SAR is not off today. We also have school on chol hamoed Succot. They are very good about not taking any opportunity to take a day off. SAR is also the last school off before Pesach. We do have a week in February of BEFORE Presidents day. They changed it a few years ago from the week after so that the parents could have a more affordable week to go away than Christmas. Not everyone that goes to SAR is "wealthy". We do however pay 21,500 for our tuition each year but at least I don't feel like they are penny pinching me with too many days off.

6 replies · active 691 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

411 · 692 weeks ago

yes, but a you may have days on sukkot where BC doesn't - but BC only have 1 day off for president's day, not 6 like SAR.

It evens itself out.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 692 weeks ago

$21.5K a year. Insane. What grades is that price for. Have you considered sending your kids out of town?
-YD

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

You see Yeshiva Dad, the BC schools that Chump tried to destroy are not so bad after all. They may not be as good as SAR or Ramaz but they come close and you don't have to pay $21.5k a year. Chump wanted to destroy that. Why? What motivated his extreme hatred? Is it becasue some inpatient 20 or 30 year olds were sold a bill of goods but those with a messiah complex? Before you react, think truthfully to yourself, why was there so much hatred toward the other schools spewed by a blog whose repeated mantra was the championing of He'Atid? It can't be because they are unaffordable when other Jewish day schools in the region are far more expensive. We await He'Atid's statement that it does not approve of what Chump "accomplished."

0 Vote up Vote down

Mark · 692 weeks ago

Yeshiva Truth - We await He'Atid's statement that it does not approve of what Chump "accomplished."

Huh? He'Atid has nothing to do with Chump, why should they make any such statement?

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

Mark, even if that is correct -- and just because you or someone else wish it so, does not make it so -- He'Atid benefitted from Chump's relentless campaign against the "legacy" hacks their "inferior" schools. He didn't just say it once or twice or three days. He said it over and over again while trumpeting He'Atid's cause. He'Aid gained traction from Chump's screed against the schools and even received a grant from the OU that could have gone to our struggling schools. Now, the He'Atid supporters say the school are quality schools. But that's not what they were saying when He'Atid defamed the schools. So, it shouldn't be a problem for He'Atid to make clear publicly that it has nothing to do with Chump. We still await that statement.

0 Vote up Vote down

Mark · 691 weeks ago

Yeshiva_Truth, what does the grant from the OU have to do with a silly blog? I think you are assigning way too much importance to an anonymous blog!

0 Vote up Vote down

SAR Mom · 692 weeks ago

411-It may well even out in the end.

Yeshiva_Dad- It is 21,500 for K through 8. We actually live on the Upper West Side so we do send to an out of town school. Our other choices are Ramaz at $30,000 which is not the right school for us but is a very good school, Heschel at 30,000 which is an excellent school but not frum enough for us and MDS at 20,000 to 24,000 which is a "good enough" school. Our kids are thriving there and we love the school. Is it perfect? no but pretty close. I am actually amazed that they manage to have 20-22 kids with 2 real teachers in each class (through 6th grade) and they manage to do it for 21,500.

I suppose it would cost a lot less (9,500 to 11,500) if it was set up more like a public school with about 30 kids per class and 1 teacher like HALB in the 5 towns but we would not be as happy with the school as we are. In fact if a school like HALB (30 kids 1 teacher) was my only choice then I actually might consider homeschooling as an option just like many of the homeschoolers who took their kids out of public school because the classes were too big.

1 reply · active 692 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

Thanks SAR Mom. It's glad to see how you are making this critical educational decision based on the right criteria. That is, the appropriate educational and philosophical/hashkafic standards for you and your family. We have some good schools in BC of different orientations. Unfortunately, there was an effort here over the last couple of years to try to destroy them by claiming they were too expensive and not worth it. They are not priced as high as the school you send to but they are relatively comparable. Yet. the perpetrators of the effort to harm them claimed they provided too much education and extra curricular services and were only for the wealthy few. A rather preposterous claim. The truth was they wanted to start their own school and went about doing it by smearing the others. It's a very sad story, especially since the OU and others are funding this new start-up at the expense of to the other schools.

0 Vote up Vote down

Outoftowner · 692 weeks ago

The perfect solution is what i had and i think what still goes on in the more right wing places.
NO VACATION
Why does there need to be multiple vacations where everyone (who can't always afford it) has to figure out "what to do for break"
Tuition and camp are burdensome enough without having to shell out extra money for mandatory trips.
Give a day off for chanukah and let the kids go to school where they belong
It will also eliminate "vacation competition"

0 Vote up Vote down

anon613 · 692 weeks ago

I am not familiar with the schools in LI, but how bad is HALB? Do their students not go to High School? Do their students not go through High School onto college? Do they go to inferior colleges? Are they unable to attain professional careers? I do understand the desire to make sure your child has what is needed to move up the ladder of education, and then eventually be successful in a career. I simply do not know the level of correlation between "an amazing" (RYNJ, etc) elementary education, and a "mediocre or bad" one (HAL B) , to future success.

1 reply · active 692 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 692 weeks ago

anon613, education is not about "moving up a ladder" or "future success," at least not in Judaism. It is about enriching and ennobling people's lives with purpose and meaning. For some in our community, RYNJ may provide those goals and objectives. But for many, it will not because it sees secular studies only as needed for the practical, achievement considerations you talk about and because its ideal image is, let's be truthful, more toward a yeshivish approach. The question is will He'Atid adopt that RYNJ approach? Probably. Its founder is an RYNJ director and its principal shares RYNJ ideals.

0 Vote up Vote down

remom · 692 weeks ago

hmmm.... no vacation you say. I think it's a bit harsh. Yes, vacations are expensive but there is so much one can take advantage of culturally in the NY Metro area. There is no end to the museums (most have free admission days/times), galleries, free concerts (Juilliard and Mannes) not to mention just walking around and seeing something other than a shul and a finished basement. There is something to be said for "airing the kepele a bit". Part of what made Jews so successful was there ability to understand the world they inhabit and understanding the beauty of maintaining a Jewish identitiy within it (although often a struggle - but Judaism was never touted as easy). Get the kids out and show them a bit of the world!!!

2 replies · active 692 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

outoftowner · 692 weeks ago

How many people take adavantage of "cultural activities" during vacation?
Answer: few to none
Museums and most cultural activities are open on Sundays when schools are off.
They are also open all summer and during chol ha'moed

If there is something extra special that parents want their child to experience they can arrange to leave school early on day.

The reality is yeshiva break is another level of competition that our community engages in.

Most kids return either sun tanned or snow tanned

Between the summer and chagim there is plenty of time off.

We baby our kids too much and are afraid to challenge them to perform (each at their own level) in preparation for life (which for most people does not include 16 weeks vacation a year)

0 Vote up Vote down

remom · 692 weeks ago

I agree with you re the amount of vacation time and the infantalization of our yeshiva kids - I'm in one hundred percent agreement.

My post listing cultural options over the vacation was in response to an earlier post stating that these vacations create additional competition on top of what already exists within the community. I was only trying to express that should one opt NOT to either go away on a ski or beach holiday that there are many things to do in the NY Metro area. Yes, many of these venues (museums and concerts, etc...) exist during the year but it is more challenging to engage it on a random Sunday because of homework, birthday parties, sports teams, and such. During the vacation and I'm assuming that the parents are taking off as well, one can as a family wander from one interesting place to another without the usual limitations of time and school the next day.

0 Vote up Vote down

anon613 · 691 weeks ago

Yeshiva Truth,

Please give the exact text of a letter you would like He'Atid to sign to distance itself from an anonymous blogger. You seem to be hung up on this topic, so please clarify exactly what the school should say.

Post a new comment

Comment as a Guest, or login:

Share on Facebook

Connected as (Logout)

Email (optional)

Not displayed publicly.

Submit Comment

Subscribe to

Comments by IntenseDebate

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)