Here’s a very nice video made by Yavneh to promote their school:
Similar ones can be found on Noam and BPY’s websites. Some of them may have been made by volunteers but some had credits at the end that seem to imply that they were made by outside companies.
The Jewish Standard is littered with ads promoting every
local Day School. Many of our minivans
have glossy magnetic bumper stickers with our school's logos embossed on them.
From the perspective of each individual school, these
marketing tools make sense. Spend a
couple hundred thousand on marketing and attract a few dozen more kids to your
school every year. But from the
perspective of the entire community it is money down the toilet. Every school is spending money competing with
the other schools for the same prospective students. (Surely we agree that
no one who sends to public school will spend a fortune sending to a Yeshiva
because of a full page color photo of some smiling kids in kippot and skirts.)
Wouldn’t it make sense for all the Yeshivot to get together
and agree to limit marketing expenses to a certain amount per child? Can’t this be a win-win for all
involved? For the lawyers out there
would this violate an anti-trust provision?
Thoughts?
[Note: I don't know why but on some browsers it says 0 comments below. There are in fact some comments. If you click on those words you will see them.]
[Note: I don't know why but on some browsers it says 0 comments below. There are in fact some comments. If you click on those words you will see them.]
thatguy · 680 weeks ago
Glossy marketing materials and constant videos? Wastes of money but necessary, just like meaningless Open Houses. Competition demands this but they all suck money from more worthwhile causes, even within a school.
Channukah gifts from parents? Wastes of money. If a single parent wants to get me a card, then fine. But for parents to chip in (either through a class rep or a school wide initiative) in order to get every teacher (or every teacher in a grade) a specific gift then I think that that is dumb. I don't need an umbrella emblazoned with a school name. I don't want a matching pen/pencil set with the school seal on it. Save your money and if you feel the need to give it to someone, donate it to a general coffer to be used to pay for photocopies or classroom materials so I don't have to spend all that cash out of pocket to cover incidentals.
Schools are most wasteful when they have to sell themselves, and parents are most wasteful when they try to show traditional appreciation by throwing money in all the wrong places.
anon613 · 680 weeks ago
While it is admirable to look at the overall expenditure being spent on marketing, but unfortunately that is a derivative of being in a competitive market. By definition, whenever there are more than one company, it means there will inevitably be competition. We can artificially suppress the competitive nature (such as how OPEC does it for gas), but that too is not the best way to solve for the issues we face.
Let's admit that until the leadership (school presidents) get together and consolidate ALL the schools, we will be in a competition. If we are in a competitive environment, and nothing is actively being done to consolidate, then we might as well let the market dictate what the future will be. That of course will lead to criticism of schools that offer too many services (i.e. too expensive) or not enough (i.e. too cheap). But in a free market, a company only should offer what its customers are asking for.
zevmo 48p · 680 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
The truth about our yeshivot is that:
1. They are worth all the money;
2. Provide our children with a solid secular and Jewish studies education;
3. For the most part, have excellent and devoted teachers;
4. Graduate students who are well prepared for high school;
5. Reflect the best of MO ideals.
The truth is also that some (and as time goes on fewer than want to admit)
1. Allowed to Chump spew his hate without response;
2. Became convinced that, even if Chump spoke harshly, there was truth to his unsupported criticisms;
3. Ignored the besmirching of the good name of our yeshivot.
Yeshivat He'Atid should make clear, if it wants to be taken seriously as doing good for the community, that it does not approve of what Chump did.
anon613 · 679 weeks ago
I agree with all your points about the yeshivot (1 thru 5). The part that brought the rise of Chump and He'Atid (although not related) is that while the schools are worth the money, it is very clear that the parent body cannot afford it. Believe me, a nice steak dinner at ETC is totally worth it. The problem is that not everyone can afford it. These people would be totally happy to go out to dinner to Nobo, where they will have a wonderful experience at a price they are more able to pay .
The yeshivot have been constantly saying that eating anything less than ETC is simply not considered a good meal. They like to say it is their quality or it is "no frills". Well, there is a spectrum in between (like even from Daulton to our schools) and they should have thought of a way to address that portion of the population (other than putting them on tuition assistance). Statistics show that 25% or more of the parents are on scholarship. Then there are those that are paying full, but struggling, so it is not crazy to say that near 40% of the parents simply want an option that is at the "Nobo" level and happy to give up the "ETC" level. The schools ignored these signs, so the free market is reacting.
It is obviously tough for a school to completely overhaul its offering (just like it is hard for a restaurant to completely turn over its menu). I believe there will always be people wanting the "ETC" version of school, so it really becomes a differentiation, rather than a one versus the other.
anon612 · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
He'Atid doesn't have to distance themselves from a blog they had nothing to do with. The Blog was a forum to vent by people who were getting squeezed by ever-rising tuition costs at schools that didn't seem to appreciate what we were all going through. It served the admirable purpose of getting the attention of the establishment and forcing them to make some changes. It also promoted low-cost alternatives.
Now that attention is being paid to the affordability issue, this blog will explore ways to control costs.
The schools may be "bargains" but they are still unaffordable to hardworking middle-class people with large families. If we expect every frum family to send their kids to Yeshivas we MUST do what we can to keep costs low, and that requires some sacrifices. Prep schools are for the wealthy so they can afford all sorts of "extras". Yeshivas, which is for all members of the community should be more "bare bones".
-YD
Me Too · 679 weeks ago
The 200K Chump blog started out alright, but it ended up becoming a shill for He'atid whether there were any back channels or not we will have no idea. Any comment questioning He'atid's model was never let up, yet the vile and hatred message regarding the established schools were let through with impunity.
As far as He'atid having nothing to do with it, Chumpy's wife did send out a community wide email supporting He'atid. As far as Chumpy's identity, it is not speculation anymore, and that is how we can connect him with the email from his wife. The only reason someone may choose not to "out" him here by name is because as much as I think they guy created unnecessary hatred among this community and disseminated false information about the established schools, I don't think anyone is willing to open themselves up to a possible lawsuit.
Avi · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
Me Too · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
Personal question - you don't have to answer. I'm just curious. Do you fall into the "Chump" category. i.e. do you:
1. Have at least 2 school-age children
2. Pay full tuition for each them
3. Have a combined household income of under $300k, and
4. Neither you nor your spouse work for a Yeshiva or are affiliated with them in any way?
I feel like those who are not in this category aren't sympathetic enough to our plight. This is especially true of some teachers and administrators who are getting deep discounts and qualified tuition (tuition paid pre-tax) on their own kids tuition & don't see a big need to make cuts.
Tim Zototi · 679 weeks ago
I have 2 school aged chidren in a Yeshiva
I pay ful tuition for both
I have a combined household income of under $300k
Neither me or my spouse work at a Yeshiva
I am sympathetic to the plight. However, what you don't realize is what it actually costs to provide the education in the Yeshivot.
The whining and complaining is typical of the sense of entitlement many in our community feel. If you don't like the cost, or the school, don't send there- its plain and simple. But, if you are going to send your children to Yeshiva, you know what the cost is. Its like whining about the cost of property taxes when you knew full well what they were like when you bought your house.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
Anony · 679 weeks ago
Tim is correct, that no one realizes what it costs to educate a child. The local yeshiva tuitions are bargains when it comes to other private schools and even what the government pays to educate a child.
The problem lately is that He'atid has come in with a marketing dream team which knows squat about education or running a school and convinced the entire community that it doesn't really cost as much as the "legacy" schools claim it does. You know what? Now that He'atid is taking a deep dive into the nuts and bolts of running a school they are beginning to see that their claims are completely false. They have admitted, not publicly though, that their model will not work and they do intend to slowly bump up tuition.
Running a school is all about efficiencies and the only thing that will really make a dent in tuition is increasing class sizes, yet even with increasing class sizes, you need full classes to really be able to lower tuition. Every school hope for full classes, however, it really is a pipe dream.
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
Let me just add that he is completely wrong is his theory on who chump is. The theory is ridiculous considering some of the things chump said about his family arrangement and considering some of the types of people he used to rail against.
Yeshiva_Truth 26p · 679 weeks ago
rickroll · 679 weeks ago
I totally disagree with your analysis on that one. Those of us with jobs in the real world like to spend our days off with our children. We get those days off THIS time of year, not mid-January. The only people who can take of time in mid-January are day school employees and dentists. If you want to make up the 20 missing days from the day school calendar, eliminated "yeshiva week" vacation.
Stop with the endless he-atid promotion. It's not flattering.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
& I haven't been promoting He'Atid.
-YD
rickroll · 679 weeks ago
rickroll · 679 weeks ago
rickroll · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 679 weeks ago