Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Marketing Expenses

Here’s a very nice video made by Yavneh to promote their school:




Similar ones can be found on Noam and BPY’s websites.  Some of them may have been made by volunteers but some had credits at the end that seem to imply that they were made by outside companies.

The Jewish Standard is littered with ads promoting every local Day School.   Many of our minivans have glossy magnetic bumper stickers with our school's logos embossed on them.

From the perspective of each individual school, these marketing tools make sense.  Spend a couple hundred thousand on marketing and attract a few dozen more kids to your school every year.  But from the perspective of the entire community it is money down the toilet.  Every school is spending money competing with the other schools for the same prospective students.  (Surely we agree that no one who sends to public school will spend a fortune sending to a Yeshiva because of a full page color photo of some smiling kids in kippot and skirts.)

Wouldn’t it make sense for all the Yeshivot to get together and agree to limit marketing expenses to a certain amount per child?  Can’t this be a win-win for all involved?  For the lawyers out there would this violate an anti-trust provision?

Thoughts?

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fact is, schools spend way too much money on things which either (IMHO) they don't need or shouldn't be forced to have.

Glossy marketing materials and constant videos? Wastes of money but necessary, just like meaningless Open Houses. Competition demands this but they all suck money from more worthwhile causes, even within a school.

Channukah gifts from parents? Wastes of money. If a single parent wants to get me a card, then fine. But for parents to chip in (either through a class rep or a school wide initiative) in order to get every teacher (or every teacher in a grade) a specific gift then I think that that is dumb. I don't need an umbrella emblazoned with a school name. I don't want a matching pen/pencil set with the school seal on it. Save your money and if you feel the need to give it to someone, donate it to a general coffer to be used to pay for photocopies or classroom materials so I don't have to spend all that cash out of pocket to cover incidentals.

Schools are most wasteful when they have to sell themselves, and parents are most wasteful when they try to show traditional appreciation by throwing money in all the wrong places.
Yeshiva Dad,

While it is admirable to look at the overall expenditure being spent on marketing, but unfortunately that is a derivative of being in a competitive market. By definition, whenever there are more than one company, it means there will inevitably be competition. We can artificially suppress the competitive nature (such as how OPEC does it for gas), but that too is not the best way to solve for the issues we face.

Let's admit that until the leadership (school presidents) get together and consolidate ALL the schools, we will be in a competition. If we are in a competitive environment, and nothing is actively being done to consolidate, then we might as well let the market dictate what the future will be. That of course will lead to criticism of schools that offer too many services (i.e. too expensive) or not enough (i.e. too cheap). But in a free market, a company only should offer what its customers are asking for.
Seems like a normal expense in a competitive space. Well done.
Enough with the Chump identity nonsense. If you knew his identity & wanted to out him you would have mentioned him by name already. Stop jerking everyone around & lets get back to substantive discussions.
Agree that the Chump identity thing is nonsense but Chump did poison efforts to help our struggling yeshivot in very bad ways, which is why the schools now need to do the marketing you question. The schools, unfortunately , have to set the record straight even if it means setting aside marketing dollars (which could be used for other things)

The truth about our yeshivot is that:

1. They are worth all the money;
2. Provide our children with a solid secular and Jewish studies education;
3. For the most part, have excellent and devoted teachers;
4. Graduate students who are well prepared for high school;
5. Reflect the best of MO ideals.

The truth is also that some (and as time goes on fewer than want to admit)

1. Allowed to Chump spew his hate without response;
2. Became convinced that, even if Chump spoke harshly, there was truth to his unsupported criticisms;
3. Ignored the besmirching of the good name of our yeshivot.

Yeshivat He'Atid should make clear, if it wants to be taken seriously as doing good for the community, that it does not approve of what Chump did.
Yeshiva Truth,

I agree with all your points about the yeshivot (1 thru 5). The part that brought the rise of Chump and He'Atid (although not related) is that while the schools are worth the money, it is very clear that the parent body cannot afford it. Believe me, a nice steak dinner at ETC is totally worth it. The problem is that not everyone can afford it. These people would be totally happy to go out to dinner to Nobo, where they will have a wonderful experience at a price they are more able to pay .

The yeshivot have been constantly saying that eating anything less than ETC is simply not considered a good meal. They like to say it is their quality or it is "no frills". Well, there is a spectrum in between (like even from Daulton to our schools) and they should have thought of a way to address that portion of the population (other than putting them on tuition assistance). Statistics show that 25% or more of the parents are on scholarship. Then there are those that are paying full, but struggling, so it is not crazy to say that near 40% of the parents simply want an option that is at the "Nobo" level and happy to give up the "ETC" level. The schools ignored these signs, so the free market is reacting.

It is obviously tough for a school to completely overhaul its offering (just like it is hard for a restaurant to completely turn over its menu). I believe there will always be people wanting the "ETC" version of school, so it really becomes a differentiation, rather than a one versus the other.
Really the marketing $'s need to be targeted by all the schools (collectively) at convincing young married's in NYC, Riverdale & Forest Hills to move to Teaneck. Having a plethora of schools with different hashkafa's, differing educational philosophies and differing price points should make the larger BC area more attractive. We need to recognize that the competition should not be between our schools, but rather between BC and the 5 Towns, Highland Park or options outside the region.
We will rue the day we views education as the same as restaurant preferences. Jewish education is and has always been the most fundamental communal concern. It is not a luxury or a taste. It is an essential, a must. Anon613 acknoweldge that the current schools meet the quality expecations and standards. Why would you want to mess with that! There is, of course, a subtle (or not so subtle) dig at the schools as being extravagant when referencing Dalton, a premiere NYC prep school. But Dalton is far more expensive than our local schools. So the point rings hollow. While our schools do not profess to be Dalton, the educational standards and product are not that far off. In other words, our schools are actually a bargain. Perhaps those who question don't want a quality Jewish education if it prevents then from going to ETC, NOBO or whatever other restaurants you consider essential to a thriving Jewish community. But this is all beside the point. The question that remains is why have we let a mean spirited blogger with an ax to grind take control of our community priorities and why is the new school that benefitted from his defamatory efforts not asked to distance itself from that attack on our institutions?
5 replies · active 679 weeks ago
There's mean-spirited people on both sides of this debate. Read through the comments that were posted before I started requiring registration. Look at the people who spent the entire day trying to "out" Mr. Chump.

He'Atid doesn't have to distance themselves from a blog they had nothing to do with. The Blog was a forum to vent by people who were getting squeezed by ever-rising tuition costs at schools that didn't seem to appreciate what we were all going through. It served the admirable purpose of getting the attention of the establishment and forcing them to make some changes. It also promoted low-cost alternatives.

Now that attention is being paid to the affordability issue, this blog will explore ways to control costs.

The schools may be "bargains" but they are still unaffordable to hardworking middle-class people with large families. If we expect every frum family to send their kids to Yeshivas we MUST do what we can to keep costs low, and that requires some sacrifices. Prep schools are for the wealthy so they can afford all sorts of "extras". Yeshivas, which is for all members of the community should be more "bare bones".

-YD
Even if He'Atid had nothing to do with the blog, which I believe is not the total truth, for the benefit of the community they should go on record with a statement addressing it. As much as He'atid claims to be an open book, there is a whole lot going on behind the scenes that if people knew about they would be very angry at anyone involved with that school.

The 200K Chump blog started out alright, but it ended up becoming a shill for He'atid whether there were any back channels or not we will have no idea. Any comment questioning He'atid's model was never let up, yet the vile and hatred message regarding the established schools were let through with impunity.

As far as He'atid having nothing to do with it, Chumpy's wife did send out a community wide email supporting He'atid. As far as Chumpy's identity, it is not speculation anymore, and that is how we can connect him with the email from his wife. The only reason someone may choose not to "out" him here by name is because as much as I think they guy created unnecessary hatred among this community and disseminated false information about the established schools, I don't think anyone is willing to open themselves up to a possible lawsuit.
Wait, so HeAtid should apologize for Chump's blog?! Did they start the blog? No. Comment on the blog? No. It isn't even clear if HeAtid benefited from the blog - you say yes, others have said that they were hurt by association. I'm not sure what you want or why you want it.
Day in and day out Chump was a shill for He'Atid, singing its praises while at the same time belittling other schools. In doing so, he relentlessly attacked the other schools as "legacies" that were run by "hacks" wasting money and unaware of what is really needed for education. As if Chump knows the first thing about what is appropriate education. In the end, Chump declared "mission accomplished" because he put He'Atid on the map. He took credit for the OU donating a sizeable sum to He'Atid. Do you think if there were no Chump, that our communal organizations (the OU, the RCBC . . .) would be supporting He'Atid or would be helping out those schools that anon613 acknowledges provide a quality education. He'Atid is now here, ok, and we as a community must shoulder the responsibility of supporting 6 (yes 6) elementary schools with a greater possibility that some will fail (as Chump and his appeasers relished). Now, its time for He'Atid to be responsible and stand up to distance itself from Chump. The silence is deafening!
Amen brother!!
"Bare bones" is just code for dumbing down our schools so that they are more like the meidocre yeshivas of more right wing communities. Those may be approrpriate for people and communities that do not place importance and meaning (as is their right) on secular education and values. But even if you do not see education as ennobling and look at it from a purely practical vantage point, you will still be placing our children at a disadvantage when you push them to compete for the high paying jobs you covet. And YD, sorry but you cannot compare Chump's relentless attack on legacy hacks (who frankly made it possible for all of us to get a quality Jewish education) day in and day out for over a year with recent realizations of the damage he caused. We await He'Atid's public statement distancing itself from Chump. If not, we can only assume that He'Atid approved of it.
YT,

Personal question - you don't have to answer. I'm just curious. Do you fall into the "Chump" category. i.e. do you:

1. Have at least 2 school-age children
2. Pay full tuition for each them
3. Have a combined household income of under $300k, and
4. Neither you nor your spouse work for a Yeshiva or are affiliated with them in any way?

I feel like those who are not in this category aren't sympathetic enough to our plight. This is especially true of some teachers and administrators who are getting deep discounts and qualified tuition (tuition paid pre-tax) on their own kids tuition & don't see a big need to make cuts.
Tim Zototi's avatar

Tim Zototi · 679 weeks ago

I can't speak for Yeshiva Truth, but I fall into that category.

I have 2 school aged chidren in a Yeshiva
I pay ful tuition for both
I have a combined household income of under $300k
Neither me or my spouse work at a Yeshiva

I am sympathetic to the plight. However, what you don't realize is what it actually costs to provide the education in the Yeshivot.

The whining and complaining is typical of the sense of entitlement many in our community feel. If you don't like the cost, or the school, don't send there- its plain and simple. But, if you are going to send your children to Yeshiva, you know what the cost is. Its like whining about the cost of property taxes when you knew full well what they were like when you bought your house.
2 replies · active 679 weeks ago
So your philosophy is that no one should ever try to improve things. it should always be take it or leave it? I'm unhappy about the high cost of Yeshiva tuition so I should take my kids out & send them to public school rather than try to discuss solutions?
Nothing is wrong with trying to discuss solution, in fact that is what everyone should be doing. However, these discussions should be done in a respectful manner with all of the facts.

Tim is correct, that no one realizes what it costs to educate a child. The local yeshiva tuitions are bargains when it comes to other private schools and even what the government pays to educate a child.

The problem lately is that He'atid has come in with a marketing dream team which knows squat about education or running a school and convinced the entire community that it doesn't really cost as much as the "legacy" schools claim it does. You know what? Now that He'atid is taking a deep dive into the nuts and bolts of running a school they are beginning to see that their claims are completely false. They have admitted, not publicly though, that their model will not work and they do intend to slowly bump up tuition.

Running a school is all about efficiencies and the only thing that will really make a dent in tuition is increasing class sizes, yet even with increasing class sizes, you need full classes to really be able to lower tuition. Every school hope for full classes, however, it really is a pipe dream.
One need only look at the Chump blog to see that a concerted effort was made to promote He'Atid while demeaning the existing schools. Now that the defmation has been successful and Chump has declared "mission accomplished," He'Atid supporters are actually admitting that the other schools are good and provide a quality product. That is a bait and switch of sorts. It suggests that there will be a bait and switch with the tuition reduction fantasy as well. Listen to the community leader who cautioned parents to be "discerning."
You are right Anony. Chump's blog was a sickening display of hatred, reflecting the values of someone quite selfish, something totally contradictory to what we should be teaching our children. The problem, as is so often the case with bad conduct, though, is not that there is an individual who acts badly, it is that those who benefit from it rationalize it and justify it away. He'Atid is where it is today because of Chump and it has done nothing to distance itself from him. He'Atid model and its objective are questionable at best. It used negative campaigning to get ahead. It owes the community a lot of answers.
Someone in Hackensack is not respecting my request not to discuss Chump's identity and he is now banned from the site.

Let me just add that he is completely wrong is his theory on who chump is. The theory is ridiculous considering some of the things chump said about his family arrangement and considering some of the types of people he used to rail against.
I agree with Yeshiva Dad that those of you who are trying to out Chump should cut it out. It sounds like you have some sort of vendetta against someone (who is probably not Chump) and are using Chump as a way to hurt that person. The real issue is not Chump; it's He'Atid's continued silence about distancing itself from Chump. We are still waiting!
I am commenting here because you seem to have disabled comments on your "chanukah" post.

I totally disagree with your analysis on that one. Those of us with jobs in the real world like to spend our days off with our children. We get those days off THIS time of year, not mid-January. The only people who can take of time in mid-January are day school employees and dentists. If you want to make up the 20 missing days from the day school calendar, eliminated "yeshiva week" vacation.

Stop with the endless he-atid promotion. It's not flattering.
1 reply · active 679 weeks ago
I didn't disable comments on the channukah post. People commented on it tonight.

& I haven't been promoting He'Atid.
-YD
My browsers (IE and firefox) do not show a link for either reading or posting comments on your 12/22 post.
My browsers (IE and firefox) do not show a link for either reading or posting comments on your 12/22 post.
My browsers (IE and firefox) do not show a link for either reading or posting comments on your 12/22 post.
2 replies · active 679 weeks ago
I see that. Don't know why that is. It's working fine with Google Chrome

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