Yeshiva Sanity: Goldbergs calculation for RYNJ

Thursday, May 10, 2012

Goldbergs calculation for RYNJ

A reader sent me the calculation below for the Goldbergs attending YNJ. They haven't posted 2012-2013 tuition on their website yet (nor has Yavneh for some reason) so I'll assume his numbers are correct.

[Cue the guy who always complains about their jacket policy]
_________________________________

...they have announced that fees will be unchanged except for the reduction in early childhood fees previously announced.

I would project 2012-2013 at $38,230.

The 2011-2012 total is $38,930 and the pre-k tuition has been reduced from $9,200 to $8,500 in 2012-2013. The other fees should be the same, although they may still increase lunch.

For 2011-2012

pre-k	9,200
2nd	11,430
5th	11,560
re-reg child 1	950
re-reg child 2	950
application child 1	850
security	400
dinner obligation	850
bldg fund (year 6)	1,000
lunch for 3 kids	1,740

total	38,930

Comments (38)

Logging you in...

Dashboard | Edit profile | Logout

Logged in as

0 Vote up Vote down

Michael · 672 weeks ago

Why is the "security fee" a junk fee at this school but at no other legacy school? Is the security at RYNJ better than at the other legacy schools as a result of this additional fee?

1 reply · active 672 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 672 weeks ago

perhaps the other schools just build it into the tuition number instead of breaking it out.

0 Vote up Vote down

Yannai · 672 weeks ago

I know this is a Beren County blog, but again, by way of comparison, if the Goldbergs lived in Calgary, Alberta, Canada (Akiva Academy):

$6,900 Pre-K tuition (3600 tuition for morning program + 3300 daycare fees to extend to full time care)
$7,200 2nd grade tuition
$7,100 5th grade tuition (2nd Elementary child gets a $100 discount)
$0 No registration fees (deposit out of tuition)
$0 No family building fund
$0 No family obligation or scripp program
$120 Trips & activity fees
N/A No hot lunchs (hoping to have in place for next year, but prices not set yet)
-------------------------
$21,270 Total

-MOST OF TUITION CAN BE CLAIMED AS A CHARITABLE TAX CREDIT (Up to 39% back depending on tax rate):

After Tax:
$12,975 Total

Notes:
-Tuition shown includes 10% early-bird discount.
- Non-obligatory fundraiser tickets historicaly $65-$90 per person.

0 Vote up Vote down

get real #2 · 672 weeks ago

Guest - you are exactly right. Some people call things "registration fees", others call it "application fee" and yet others call it deposit. Focus on two items:
1. Grand Total - YNJ is ahead of all established schools in the area
2. Quality of product - all the schools must be rather solid, as I hear comments of satisfaction from parents of all schools.

I do not think people's primary concerns are #2 above. I think it is #1. People are Happy or at least OK with product. What is being done in our community to bring all in tuition for full paying parent to 10k? Not much.

1 reply · active 672 weeks ago

+2 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 672 weeks ago

Ever hear of Yeshivat He'atid?
-YD

0 Vote up Vote down

realist · 672 weeks ago

No point in taking about Heatid when they havn't even opened yet. Right now, they are just another potential option. I hate to put them in the same category, but so was SACS, and we all know how that turned out. Both schools are apparently having a very difficult time finding teachers... not too surprising.

0 Vote up Vote down

get real #2 · 672 weeks ago

My comment was about established schools improving their price for parents. He'Atid is a much publicized preschool. When it is PK - 8, in 8 or 9 years, if around, can enter this conversation. However, there costs are actually a bit above PK and K at existing programs at shuls. So, having 8 or 9k for PK or K, while cheaper than most established PK - 8 programs, is not even less than local shuls. Now Chabad has been able to grow to 3rd grade already, and has kept their prices relatively constant, but please, dont compare a school without a day of classes to date and No 2-8th grade registrants to my analysis of overall tuition / programs at existing school.

0 Vote up Vote down

ann · 672 weeks ago

Realist - do you just like making stuff up? He'Atid got many great resumes and hired a terrific team of teachers. They have not publicized names yet due to the teachers wanting to give notice and finishing out their year at their current schools. They are real and here and opening in September. Can't wait for my child to start!!

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 672 weeks ago

Ann - keep convincing yourself that they have top notch teachers. Knowing a few of them, they were all not asked to return to their current schools and are considered weaker.

Yes, they will have staff, and yes they will be opening - but only time will tell if a weak teacher will be able to perform under the pressures of the new environment and larger class sizes ( 1st grade)

1 reply · active 671 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

"Knowing a few of them, they were all not asked to return to their current schools and are considered weaker. "

Seriously? You expect us to believe that someone told you that they will be teaching at He'Atid next year because their current job asked them not to return due to their teaching skills being considered weak? Do you even read the nonsense your write?

Oh, and I'm sure the Legacy teachers are all fantastic... when they're not being arrested by the FBI on kiddie porn charges.

0 Vote up Vote down

Miami Al · 672 weeks ago

I have a question, why is it necessary to be at the same school for PreK-8? I'm not meaning this judgmentally, I hear it from people here too, I'm just a little confused. Being a mostly public school kid, I went to one school K-1, one from 2-5 (a new school opened and we were redistricted), another for middle 6-8, and another school in high school 9.

It can't be the building fund, because it seems pretty nominal, $5k/school, right? I mean, if RYNJ is more problematic in middle school (jackets, etc) but fine for elementary, why is it crazy to do a Shul for PreK/K, RYNJ for 1-4, and switch to another school for 5-8?

I mean, with 4 kids, a savings of 6k for two years and 2k/year for 4 years is $20k/student, or $80k/family? Even losing $5k on a second building fund, you're still saving $75k or $18750/student... a nice chunk of an early college fund...

Can someone explain to me why PreK becomes a 9 year commitment? Someone asked me in October of the year if that meant I was committed through 12th grade, I was shocked, I said I was committed through June. Why the inability to switch schools?

I can't imagine that there is a dramatically different Hashkafa at the 3rd grade level between your schools, but maybe I'm wrong. I know of non-observant and quasi-observant families that send their kids to the RW school for elementary and sometimes elementary and middle school, then a LW Jewish Prep school for high school, and nobody finds that crazy. I also know a family that started at the RW Coop school (featured on Orthonomics a few years back) and are moving to the non-Orthodox Community school in later years.

Why is everything "for life?"

Thanks for any feedback.

0 Vote up Vote down

Carol · 672 weeks ago

Guest- actually not true. Not one teacher hired by He'atid was asked not to return to her school. (why do you think it is ok to just write lies because you are anonymous) People are going to be very pleasantly surprised when they hear who the teachers are - what schools they are coming from, etc. why dont you hold comment and just wait and see who the teachers are when they are announced - also, as in every other school, the parents who actually have students in the classes will be the ones to decide whether the teachers are doing a good job - not a person on a blog who doesn't even know who the teachers are!

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 672 weeks ago

Carol- of course the teacher isn't going to tell He'atid that they weren't asked back.

I can only imagine that the legacies are ecstatic to hear He'atid is hiring their rejects

0 Vote up Vote down

Carol · 672 weeks ago

Guest - umm - if that were the case, then He'atid could announce their teachers now - they are holding off becuase the teachers had to give notice to their schools. Or perhaps you can tell me another reason why they are holding off - is it that they are having difficulty hiring teachers as realist wrote above (just like SACs, apparently) and dont have any or is it that they did hire teachers who were all not asked to come back from their schools as you claim to know. Gee - I wonder which one of you is 'in the know'

0 Vote up Vote down

Carol · 672 weeks ago

Gues - most legacies are actually just focusing on themselves - as they should. Each legacy has its own issues to deal with. YNJ for example is going thru huge transition, trying to fix their preschool and working on their middle school boys program which has a lot of problems. Most schools seem to realize that He'atid is starting in the fall and have really switched their focus from being angry or worried to just focusing on their own schools and making their own schools even better - as they should. As a parent of 4 children in one of those legacies, i dont care about He'atid, i want my school to focus on itself and improve itself. Just seems to be a few bloggers here who still feel the need to bash . .. .

0 Vote up Vote down

thatguy · 672 weeks ago

Miami Al -

I know for my kids, the issue of switching schools was a major discussion. While the underlying religious philosophies were not an issue, friends and peer groups were, as were particulars of curriculum. When my elder switched, she moved into a school that had done significantly more work in certain subjects and the math curriculum was not aligned with what she had done previously so the tracking placements had to be constantly tweaked. There was significant adjustment time needed for her. My other chose NOT to switch in order to avoid these challenges. Continuity of instruction, familiarity with routine etc are the kinds of things that, yes, a child and family can overcome which is why people do switch schools. But is it optimal? If the need is not extreme I would suggest that it is not optimal and many would do what they could to avoid it.

0 Vote up Vote down

Proud Jew · 672 weeks ago

Carol: You do not understand the yeshiva dynamic. Teachers do not give "two weeks notice". It is a very small world, and they will generally inform their schools months in advance that they plan on leaving in order to allow their school to hire a replacement. Therefore, your comments don't hold water.

In addition, very few qualified teachers would chance leaving an established yeshiva for a new school. We all know that SACS gave teachers contracts last year that were never honored because they never opened. You are dreaming if you rhink they hired a bunch of top teachers.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Why · 672 weeks ago

Carol why the need for a gratuitous dig at YNJ? Of all the schools, YNJ has the least to worry about from Heatid. The school has "lost" very few children to Heatid and most of these are children of board members of Heatid. Then of course there is Chump but he doesn't really count (and why you accepted his children is a mystery). Besides this YNJ has another year of record enrollment, a waiting list, record fundraising and is doing very well thank you. You obviously know a lot about Heatid and care about the school. Why don't you stick to the narrative about how great Heatid will be and stop with the Chump-like bashing of other schools for no reason.

0 Vote up Vote down

Carol · 672 weeks ago

Why - my comments were hardly a dig. It is a fact that YNJ is in transition - has problems with its preschool and with its boys middle school, etc. The good part is that Board members and administrators finally seem to realize this, albeit too late, and are working to resolve the problems. Better to admit the problems than just talk about the record enrollment, waiting list, record fundraising and doing very well. Ignoring the problems only make things worse - this has become clear from my conversations with people who send to the school. The school i sent my children to has problems as well - as do all schools. I can't talk about how great He'atid is - I dont know whether it will be great or not. I can only respond when people try to post things that are just untrue - Proud Jew - i noticed no one answered my question on who is 'in the know' - that He'atid is haivng trouble hiring teachers just like SACS or whether He'atid has hired teachers but they are all teachers who have been fired from their schols.

1 reply · active 672 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 672 weeks ago

" i noticed no one answered my question on who is 'in the know' - that He'atid is haivng trouble hiring teachers just like SACS or whether He'atid has hired teachers but they are all teachers who have been fired from their schols."

Don't these two go hand in hand? They are having trouble hiring good teachers, so they are hiring those let go by their schools.

It isn't common practice for schools to announce teachers. I wouldn't ready anything into why they haven't announced anything yet.

0 Vote up Vote down

Carol · 672 weeks ago

Guest - no - very difficult time finding teachers means they are having a difficult time finding teachers. As in they dont have teachers. Not they hired bad teachers.
Either way - wait till they announce/ you see what schools these teachers are from - and at that point we will see who on this blog knows what he /she is talking about.

0 Vote up Vote down

REALITY · 672 weeks ago

Why so many questions about He'Atid? I know many enrolled parents that are very nervous and some considering keeping a short leash, ready to return to their "legacy" of choice. Unfortunately, we are missing the main issue in town about affordability and costs for Yeshiva. I know several families, who, on the other hand, are enrolled in He'Atid, and said to me "regardless of how good or bad He'Atid will be, they MUST stay at He'Atid, solely due to cost. Some of these same families said if their current top option legacy was same price as He'Atid, they would NOT be enrolled at He'Atid.

Let's call a spade a spade. Finances are 90% of the discussion. Ideally, we wish all had top academics and every teacher was an all-star, but let's admit what is really going on in town.

0 Vote up Vote down

Home · 672 weeks ago

Are there frum people in town home schooling? What has been their experience? How about social life? Pros? Cons? Can you post? Many can't pay 9k at Heatid or 13 - 17k elsewhere, and are concerned He'Atid 9k will budge once donations slow down. I have to say, with the amount of kids at YNJ, amount of programs they have and from N - 8th, how they remain lowest cost in town, fully built out, is amazing...but still very high for many.

0 Vote up Vote down

Mr. Intuition · 671 weeks ago

Can someone post the new school calendars (if they exist) for Noam and YNJ?

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 671 weeks ago

Home,

We did a post on hoomeschooling. See here: http://yeshivasanity.blogspot.com/2012/01/guest-p...

+1 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

YNJ justs ent out the new tuition scheduale. The dinner fee was rasied to $1250.

-1 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

No, that's false- they combined the old security fee (for $400) with the dinner fee (was $850) to one family obligation. The tuition is completely unchanged, aside from PreK being lower. The form is on the website.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

Why did they combine the security fee and the dinner obligation under a new name? How does that change anything at all? It doesn't help parents one bit.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 671 weeks ago

BPY also got rid of the Dinner Obligation & combined it into a larger "Family Obligation." It's a good idea - that way you can't just avoid the dinner & skip out on a major source of revenue for the school.

Of course the people that didn't want to come to the dinners because of the cost but will now come because its included will be an additional expense and the are not likely to be the types to buy Gold Pages in the journals or big spenders on the raffles.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 671 weeks ago

Guest,

Doesn't help the parents but it helps those who want to stop hearing complaints about their security fee.

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

The YNJ dinner obligation is a mandatory fee, so even if you don't go to the dinner you have to pay. This whole thing is nonsence. They should just combine all the stupid fees into one price and say "this is what it costs to go to our school for a year."

0 Vote up Vote down

Michael · 671 weeks ago

Query whether all the teasing and poking fun of YNJ's "security fee" led to them doing away with it as a line item fee.

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

Of course it helps the parents. It may not lower you overall tuition, both schools now allow these fees to be spread over regular tuition payments.

You are now making 10 equal monthly payments instead 10 payments plus 2-3 additional payments.

The schools heard the complaints of the full pays. These extra monthly expenses were difficult & spreading the payments makes it easier to budget for.

I'm sure some will find a way to knock this but if the fees will be there anyway, than this makes it easier to pay.

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 671 weeks ago

YNJ's tuition schedule:
https://secure.onecallnow.com/Attachments/134170_...

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 662 weeks ago

YNJ Base Tuition did go up from $11,560 to 11,780.

1 reply · active 662 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 662 weeks ago

Correction: YNJ raised from $11,560 to $12,730 or 10%!

+1 Vote up Vote down

Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 662 weeks ago

Guest,

That is not correct. in 2011-2012, $11,560 was for 4th & 5th grades and 6th thru 8th was $12,730. Those rates remain for 2012-2013. I assume you have a child that is going into 6th grade next year & you now have to pay more, but they didn't raise their rates.

1 reply · active 662 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 662 weeks ago

Agreed, but the fact that parents that have kids that enter 6 grade have to pay 10% increase in one year sure is an increase to them.

Post a new comment

Comment as a Guest, or login:

Share on Facebook

Connected as (Logout)

Email (optional)

Not displayed publicly.

Submit Comment

Subscribe to

Comments by IntenseDebate

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)