In order to do a basis of comparison for tuition in various schools on an apples-to-apples basis we need to make certain assumptions. I’m going to compare all the fees based on a family of 5 not on scholarship & not getting any staff discounts. Family has 3 children are in Pre-K, 2nd grade and 5th grade. They attend the annual dinner every year and use the gift cards thru the Scrip program to buy things they were buying anyway (let’s ignore the credit card discounts they are passing up). And let’s assume they want to keep all of their kids in the same school. The 2 older kids attended the school since Kindergarten and the 3rd is a new student. They make all payments on time and register as early as possible. They don’t have a business thru which they can purchase ads in the dinner journal. They want to purchase hot lunches for their kids every day but without pizza or any other special type. Let’s call them the Goldbergs. For 2012/2013 if they send their kids to BPY the Goldbergs will have to pay $47,315 (calculations after the jump).
When the other schools upload their tuition schedules we’ll see how the other schools stack up. We can’t do He’atid because they don’t have a 2nd or 5th grade but we all know they are much less.
Assumptions were random & any similarity to any real family is purely coincidental. I’m just trying to cut thru the confusopoly*.
* "a group of companies with similar products who intentionally confuse customers instead of competing on price"
* "a group of companies with similar products who intentionally confuse customers instead of competing on price"
| $ 12,700.00 | Pre-K tuition |
| $ 14,200.00 | 2nd grade tuition |
| $ 14,350.00 | 5th grade tuition |
| $ 750.00 | Re-registration child 1 |
| $ 750.00 | Re-registration child 2 |
| $ 800.00 | Application fee, child 3 |
| $ - | Family building fund (already paid off) |
| $ 1,300.00 | Family obligation |
| $ 65.00 | Trips & activity fees |
| $ 2,400.00 | 3 hot lunchs |
| $ 47,315.00 | TOTAL |
Logging you in...
math wiz · 674 weeks ago
Re-Registration for the 2nd and 5th graders ( if they register as early as possible as you said) if $750 a child , not $1250.
Lunch for all day except pizza is $650 a child - not $800. Not sure why you are even including lunch since it is completely optional - its like including clubs for your kids should you want them to enroll in 2 class, 3 times a year. You can make your kids lunches for WAY LESS than $2000 a year.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 674 weeks ago
You are right about the registration. I was ignoring late fees but i didn't notice the "discount" for early payments (confusopoly indeed). I will correct that.
But the tuition schedule clearly says optional hot lunch for M-Fr is $800 & that's without pizza. Is that a mistake on the schedule?
As far as why that's included I had to make certain assumptions & the total could be more or less based on the assumptions that you make. I tried to go with what I thought was typical. I think 2 parents working hard to pay full tuition for 3 kids mostly don't have the time to make lunch every day & would pay $800 apiece for the school to provide it even if they could save a few hundred making it themselves.
math wiz · 674 weeks ago
This is from their schedule of fees -
Optional Hot Lunch :
M-Fri. $800.00/ M-Th $650.00 / Pizza Fridays $200.00
I interpret this as 3 different options
Full Lunch M- Fri ( 5 days a week, including pizza on fridays) $800
Full Lunch M-TH ( 4 days a week, excluding pizza on fridays) $650
Pizza Day Only Fridays $200
Therefore, if a family does everyday except special days, like pizza - it would be $650 a child, not $800.
Of my cohort, most only for pizza day and make lunch the rest of the week.
Guest 2 · 674 weeks ago
JS (hello) · 674 weeks ago
Lunch has nothing to do with school.
Also, taking out the building fund obligation is a bit disingenuous as well. I see why you did it, but unless every school has the same building fund requirement it at least needs to be noted.
Seen this before? · 674 weeks ago
Wasn't this analysis already done before (and pretty well) see - http://eli.lansey.net/research/schooldata/. Data is out of date. A bunch of the schools raised in the interim and are now starting to bring down. Some schools kept flat. Why not ask Eli if he can update his numbers?
Just a friendly suggestion.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 674 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 674 weeks ago
Thanks for sending that to me. I never saw it before. It's pretty cool! I'll ask him to do a guest post about it.
JS (hello) · 674 weeks ago
But, if I'm a parent of a non-school age child or I'm thinking of moving to Teaneck and want to know what the schools will cost me your scenario and calculation aren't terribly helpful. You're including a completely optional meal plan as part of the tuition expense and you're not noting that the parents have already paid down a $7,500 building fee.
I get that it's hard to come up with a good scenario, but I don't think yours is particularly helpful.
This is why I had sent that link yesterday to that other blog that lined up comparable costs for comparison.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 674 weeks ago
Confused · 674 weeks ago
realist · 674 weeks ago
The problem is that no centralized committee has been established in order to deal with tuition on a global level. Until this happens, nothing will change.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 674 weeks ago
JS (hello) · 674 weeks ago
The system is broken and even years of keeping tuition flat isn't going to change that. 3 kids really isn't a large family even by MO standards. $47k in tuition is simply not affordable to the vast majority of parents.
I wonder if anyone has ever thought about this from the opposite perspective: what percentage of parents that cannot pay full tuition is acceptable? Many schools have 50% of families on scholarship (at least anecdotally, and I think the number is so low only because many families do not yet have all kids in school). Is that acceptable? 50% of a community taking tzedaka? Let's say only 10% of the community taking tzedaka is acceptable. How low would tuition have to be to reach that number?
Fact is, Frisch tuition is around $25k/child. So, let's age these kids about 7 years. Even assuming tuition stays flat for 7 years (who wants to take that bet?) you have kids in 12th, 9th, and 6th grades. That family is now looking at a tuition bill around $65k. Think they can afford an extra $20k in tuition?
I don't know what percentage of parents can afford $47k, but whatever it is, the percentage that can afford $65k has got to be way lower.
There comes a point where pretty much no one can afford full tuition without either earning tremendous salaries, borrowing heavily, or hitting up grandparents.
We've created a community of poor beggar families who earn more than $100k.
CJ Srullowitz · 674 weeks ago
The only solution to this "crisis" is a kehillah system, wherein tuition is replaced by dues which are then tax-deductible (except for NJ state taxes). It's the only solution that is in our collective hands to implement (as opposed to vouchers which will require an electorate far larger than the Orthodox community).
Mark · 674 weeks ago
Orthowatch · 674 weeks ago
Nursery.............$8,200
Kindergarten....$9,500
Primer - 3.........$11,550
4-6G..................$12,000
6B, 7..................$13,700
8.........................$13,850
9.........................$16,700
10-11.................$16,300
12.......................$16,550
Other fees are as follows:
Application for new students: $100
Family Obligations
Journal Assessment: $750
Scrip: $4,000, or pay $200
Building fund: $750 first 4 years, $300 annually afterward
Administrative fee (for filing contracts after June 15th): $200
So for the example given, the fees are as follows (assuming the contract is filed before June 15th):
Tuition: 8,200 + 11,550 + 12,000 = 31,750
Family fees: 300+750 = 1,050
Total: 31,750 + 1,050 = 32,800
Now, if you live in Elizabeth or Hillside, your kid in pre-school automatically gets a scholarship - the school gives it to everyone in pre-school who is local. That lowers the Pre-K (or Nursery as JEC calls it) from $8,200 to (I believe) $5,600. This lowers the total to 30,200.
I know I didn't include a fee for lunches. I'm sure the JEC offers it, I just don't know what it costs. It's still much, much cheaper than
UNFAIR · 674 weeks ago
1. Teaneck, overall, has lots of mismanagement and waste - in all parts of its infrastructure and operations. Not just the Bd of Ed, but if focused on Bd. of Ed, compare TPS to say 10 or 15 similar size communities within 10 miles and the price per student will drop 10-20%.
2. A child that would be at 45K Sinai or even more expensive special programs, or even a transition / resource room track at a yeshiva for a lot more money is within the same "average" at TPS...so, if we remove all special ed from formula, what is the TPS average. You need to compare apples to apples.
3. I know people say there is no dual curriculum. While it may not be LK, there is "dual" curriculum programs that yeshivot do not offer. In addition, do the yeshivot have marching bands, drama programs, football teams, stadiums, etc...
I am not saying TPS is managed perfectly, but to simply say, this is what education costs bc this is what it is at TPS is misleading.
If you deduct for special ed [not listed on base tuition at yeshiva], football programs, etc...actual cost per student in mainstream TPS, even though much higher than most neighboring towns is still way below Yeshiva tuition.
I think education costs a lot, but we have to still be accurate with what we state.
Orthowatch · 674 weeks ago
math wiz · 674 weeks ago
The Christie administration announced a new way of reporting school districts spending on Friday that dramatically boosted the official price tag for educating each New Jersey child last year to an average of $17,836.
That figure is $4,239 higher than the average under the previous method of calculating per-pupil costs.
Governor Christie said he announced the new method to give taxpayers a more accurate picture of public spending on preschool through Grade 12. The new numbers include costs that were excluded in the past when comparing districts, such as transportation, debt service, capital outlays for equipment, employee benefits paid by the state, and federal aid for preschools.
“If we are going to reform a system that is failing tens of thousands of children, we need real accountability for academic performance that considers the total dollars being spent,” Christie said in a statement.
Among regular Bergen County districts, Alpine had the highest per-pupil cost — $28,576 under the new accounting, up $4,676 from the old method. In Passaic County, the highest among regular districts was Paterson — $20,229 under the new rules, up $4,820 from the previous method. Special-services districts, which serve severely disabled students, had higher rates.
realist · 674 weeks ago
Miami Al · 674 weeks ago
Nationwide, special educational programs account for about 20% of educational spending. I don't know the breakdown in Teaneck, but I'd use 20% as a ballpark.
I think you're finding that the non-special ed component of Teaneck schools is roughly in line as your schools.
Now for a fairer comparison, why don't you compare your per-pupil spending to local diocese catholic schools, I think you'll find an eye opener there.
Yannai · 674 weeks ago
$6,900 Pre-K tuition (3600 tuition for morning program + 3300 daycare fees to extend to full time care)
$7,200 2nd grade tuition
$7,100 5th grade tuition (2nd Elementary child discount)
$0 No registration fees (deposit out of tuition)
$0 No family building fund
$0 No family obligation or scripp program
$120 Trips & activity fees
N/ANo hot lunchs (hoping to have in place for next year, but prices not set yet)
-------------------------
$21,270 Total
Notes:
-MOST OF TUITION CAN BE CLAIMED AS A CHARITABLE TAX CREDIT (Up to 40% back depending on tax rate)
-Tuition shown includes 10% early-bird discount.
- Non-obligatory fundraiser tickets historicaly $65-$90 per person.