Yeshiva Sanity: Repayment of Financial Assistance

Monday, August 27, 2012

Repayment of Financial Assistance

Jake Goldstein wrote an op-ed in the Jewish Press suggesting that parents who are on financial assistance be asked nicely every year to donate to the school even after their children graduate, to compensate the school for the tuition assistance that they received. As he admits, parents struggling to pay for elementary school education are going to have an even harder time paying for high school, college, weddings, etc. so most of them wont have much disposable income left over for donations. However for the few whose fortunes turn around and they suddenly have money available for donations, their first priority for donations should be the schools that helped them out when they couldn't pay full freight. So his suggestion, while not a "solution", should still be pursued. It only costs a few stamps every year & if it helps get one parent to repay a few thousand dollars, it's worth it.

Click on the link above t read the whole article. Here's an excerpt of the upshot:

1. A new clause should be included in the tuition reduction form which parents would agree to in writing accepting a moral commitment to make a sincere and good faith ‘best efforts’ to pay back as much of the accumulated tuition reduction as possible by making the school a top priority recipient of their discretionary charitable donations, now and upon leaving the school.

2. Accumulated tuition reduction would then be tracked throughout the duration of the parents’ tenure at the school.

3. On every Elul thereafter, including after their youngest child graduates, parents would receive a statement reminder quantifying the accumulated tuition assistance they received and the years in which it was received, along with the accumulated donations they have given toward their moral obligation.

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End Welfare · 657 weeks ago

It is a no-brainer. I would also like to see schools take a lien (secondary to mortgage company of course) against all houses on scholarship assistance. Whether or not we ever foreclose against them is besides the point. The option should be there.

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Carlton Terrace · 657 weeks ago

I think it's a good idea.

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cyberdov · 657 weeks ago

It's a horrible idea! Just try to imagine getting annual reminders for the rest of your life that you were 'on the dole' for tuition. If it is a community value to enable Jewish kids to attend day school, then let's find a way to do it with dignity!

1 reply · active 657 weeks ago

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End Welfare · 657 weeks ago

" Just try to imagine getting annual reminders for the rest of your life that you were 'on the dole' for tuition."

Just try and imagine having to subsidize other people's kids tuition your whole life! If you don't want the reminders you can always pay full tuition. How many "people on the dole" have cable tv? Please remind me. Surely nobody would "go on the dole" while still paying monthly fees for cable.

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cyberdov · 657 weeks ago

To clarify - I don't object to the idea that people should pay back into the system later on when they are more able. But maybe figure out how to approach those that are in that position, rather than cast such a broad net and humiliate all those people who aren't.

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thatguy · 657 weeks ago

so this treats tzeddakah as a loan on a moral level, and the yearly reminders are the reminder to repay a loan. The underlying question is what sticks in people's craws -- should we be thinking about tuition assistance as a gift/grant, or as a loan until it can be repaid.

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Upset · 656 weeks ago

As a soluton, part of the finacial aid package should be a note obligating parents to start paying back after kids graduate. Not saying full amount of aid every year should be loan, but if you havent paid full cost of yeshiva why should tuition payments stop when kids are done with school. Additionally it would be a new source of revenue to fund scholarship budgets

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Miami Al · 656 weeks ago

I think sending a family a letter including a statement of their impact on the scholarship fund, money taken and given, asking them to give to the scholarship fund so other families can receive the beneifts they did, could be a net positive and might be an effective campaign.

If it morally turns the grant into a loan, it is probably more likely to be repaid.

"Just try to imagine getting annual reminders for the rest of your life that you were 'on the dole' for tuition."

If it works, so what? I mean, is Jewish education a value, then we should pay it forward for the next generation. Publicly humiliating people violates Halacha, guilting people into giving money is at the core of Jewish fundraising... this is the latter, not the former...

Reminding people the rest of their lives how much they benefitted from the generosity of others and asking them to give to help others? That's how every academic organization I've been involved with fundraises...

Sure this is in an obnoxious, in your face way, but that's a cultural decision, not a moral one.

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JS (hello) · 656 weeks ago

It's always been a question as to whether scholarships are a form of charity or a grant from the school. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest the scholarships are actually loans.

If it's charity or a grant, it clearly doesn't have to be paid back. Some people would prefer to call it a charity that is paid for by the community because they feel that gives them (as members of the community) a right to make certain demands on the families - only poor people receive charity so you have to behave like a poor person does (no cable TV, etc.). If they're a grant, the schools can give them for any reason whatsoever and ask the other parents to subsidize it and no one else can say a word - the only protest is to not patronize that school.

If it's a loan, again the community has no right to say anything. It's a private transaction between the school and the recipient. They can ask you to subsidize it and you have no say even if the recipient lives lavishly and even if the school never asks them to pay it back.

Ironically, I think people are happier with the charity model since it gives them more of a "right" to complain. The schools may have to listen if this is communal charity, they don't have to listen if it's a private transaction unless they're afraid it will hurt the bottom line.

It seems to me it's more of a grant. I don't think schools are communal institutions. So, the schools can give to whomever they want for whatever reason.

If they want to do some combination of loans and grants that's fine with me, they can do whatever they want. I just wonder why no one cares when Yeshiva University or Stern or any other college/university helps out its poorer students, but when the local yeshivas do it everyone goes nuts. YU/Stern receive large donations which subsidize everyone. The local yeshivas receive large donations which subsidize everyone. Why do the large donors not care about people's cable bill, but the yeshiva paying parents do? It all seems very hypocritical.

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JS (hello) · 656 weeks ago

I'd just add I find the author's nomenclature to be part of the ambiguity surrounding the individual's and community's relationship to the yeshiva. He calls it a "moral obligation" to pay the yeshiva back. Why is it a moral obligation? It's the talk of moral obligations that is at the heart of the anger and resentment. The school made a private decision to give financial assistance. That is a gift. If they want to make a loan, then it's a loan. But, this moral obligation has no part in this issue, in my opinion. Just because it would be nice to donate back to the school doesn't mean one has any moral obligation to do so. If I strike it rich after getting financial assistance and choose to give my largess elsewhere, what moral code have I violated?

This is just another way of complaining about scholarship families having cable TV.

Once we start talking about moral obligations we walk down the road of what moral obligations to the schools have to their students and families. Is there a moral obligation to keep kids in the school if the parents refuse to pay?

Also, I think it bears noting that many full payers are not exactly in the giving mood when it comes to the schools and likely won't be giving the schools another penny even if they have the financial means.

Finally, what if the scholarship recipients then help pay for their grandchildren's tuition. Does that help fulfill the moral obligation?

Frame it as a financial/legal arrangement or just accept it's a gift with no strings attached.

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Miami Al · 656 weeks ago

BTW, JS has implied that people aren't concerned about the "tuition transfer" issue at University... they are, and it's hitting the mainstream press:

http://nbcnews.to/Q1RTye

Enjoy.

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Orthowatch · 656 weeks ago

To me, this is a no brainer. Parents should be repaying the money regardless out of hakaras hatov.

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Jon · 656 weeks ago

FWIW, when I finished semicha at RIETS, I and my parents received a letter from R' Charlap wishing me mazal tov. In the letter, it says that although my education was free to me, it actually cost YU $90K (I think that was the number, it was a number of years ago) and suggested I contribute towards that's goal.

2 replies · active 656 weeks ago

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Guest · 656 weeks ago

What were your thoughts at receiving the letter for R' Charlap?

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Jon · 656 weeks ago

Ambivilance. I did receive a "free" education, for which I am eternally grateful (and, for which, I do donate to YU). On the otherhand, the letter was rather tacky.

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Anon on LI · 656 weeks ago

Just curious -
Did any of the posters here receive financial aid to attend college? Do you donate to your university out of Hakarat Hatov? My husband received a fully subsidized education, and does donate to his school every year, however many of our peers do not.

1 reply · active 656 weeks ago

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Orthowatch · 656 weeks ago

I received an academic scholarship, because I had great grades in high school, and did well on the SAT. They offered it with my acceptance letter after I applied. I didn't even have to ask for it. I applied for government financial aid because the school required you to file the forms. I did not ask for any other financial aid from the school. I've also never been asked by them to donate anything.

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anon · 656 weeks ago

anyone at heatid orientation today?

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Parent · 656 weeks ago

Yes.It was absolutely lovely. The place was beautiful. The teachers we met with seemed great. The parents were friendly with one another. Rabbi Gralla was charming and was happy to answer our questions.

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End Welfare · 656 weeks ago

All the feedback i have heard so far from the parents who went to Heatid's orientation has been nothing but positive. Everything in the school is brand new and sparkling. Where are all the haters now who were spreading lies that He'atid was going to open up in a dirty run-down building with second-hand materials. Only question now is why parents with children of age are paying double for the same product.

1 reply · active 656 weeks ago

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thatguy · 656 weeks ago

what product?

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Charlie · 656 weeks ago

The HeAtid haters are just angry that they are stuck paying inflated prices for a mediocre product. psychologically speaking, they have to lash out at HeAtid and convince the,selves that it sucks in order to make them feel better about their choice to send to a legacy.

I've said this many times, and I'll say it again - whoever bets against GD is a fool. I hear he's going to star a high school next.

1 reply · active 656 weeks ago

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CJ Srullowitz 36p · 656 weeks ago

While I am rooting for He'atid and I think very highly of GD, it is fair to say that his school has no record yet. That doesn't make one a "hater."

I send my children to "legacy" schools and am extremely happy with the "product"; I wouldn't describe it as mediocre. But it does cost a lot of money. If someone can do it for less - and I hope he can - I'm interested.

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HeAtid Fan · 656 weeks ago

Today's young families should not embark on a yeshiva education if they cannot afford to pay the full tuition period. The day school will then be made up of children of the haves and the children of the have nots will have to opt for public schools with the more affordable outside supplemental Jewish education - as in days of past. This is the new economic reality.
Yeshivat Heatid is trying to make a product that is more affordable to middle income folks. kol Hakavod It should be supported both financially and by word of mouth by all segments of our community.

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exposed · 655 weeks ago

with heatid booting up today, what happens if their whole model doesnt work? do they just hit alt + ctrl +delete?

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Carlton Terrace · 655 weeks ago

"Today's young families should not embark on a yeshiva education if they cannot afford to pay the full tuition period"

Heatid Fan: Not only is your comment mean, it also goes against the Torah model of education for all. Are you typical of the Heatid attitude toward the poorer families in our community? I sure hope not!

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Think Again · 649 weeks ago

What a great plan!!!! If I want my tuition to be considered a charitable deduction by the IRS, just ask the yeshiva day school to grant me a deferral until my last child graduates, and then make a big deductible contribution to the Dinner Journal! Why hadn't I thought of that sooner?

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