You are about to flag this comment as being inappropriate. Please explain why you are flagging this comment in the text box below and submit your report. The blog admin will be notified. Thank you for your input.
Why do you call this blog "Yeshiva Sanity"? The only thing you are really interested in in promoting Heatid. Can't you at least be honest enough to admit this??????
Honestly, in "GD" YOU trust. I have never met the man. I don't agree with everything that has happened in his name. I have no reason to trust him. If you wish to play word games bordering on a"z, leave me out of it. I don't find it funny or useful.
The guy - no doubt with help from others - solved the tuition crises for so many people. Now more children are being born, marriages are being saved. This isn't hyperbole - it is reality. This man has done more to solve the crises in a couple of years than all the legacy and establishment folks have done in decades. So yeh, in GD I trust!
I have promoted many things on this blog to help with the tuition crisis, besides He'atid. I'm in favor of an "all-in" solution since there is no one magic bullet that will end the crisis overnight. Some things I've included are:
-RYNJ being transparent and issuing a report publicly with a breakdown of its finances -BPY adding more days to the calendar and working hard to reduce cancellations from weather -Moriah cracking down on "self-scholarships" -Yavneh having a Q&A session with parents about financial information with the Board President, Executive Director and principal -Noam slashing pre-school tuition -NNJKIDS -Community Talmud Torah (coupled with a competently run Hebrew charter school) -JFS and JEC welcoming BC students with comparably lower tuition -Expected openings of Tiferet Academy and Westchester Torah Academy -Efforts by the OU and others to encourage legislative solutions such as vouchers and subsidies for certain educational elements that don't include religion.
Most of all I've promoted sanity in the discussion. People sometimes go off the rails when so much money is involved and they get to comment anonymously.
YD, trust is a wonderful thing. Facts are even better. You commend a number of schools above for providing transparency on their finances. This is something that has been mentioned time and again on this and other blogs and was a significant criticism of the current schools. Any yet, He'atid refuses to provide additional information on their financials beyond - 'if you want to know more call up the board and they will tell you'. This same contention was made for years by the current schools and was always lambasted as not being enough. Now He'atid is starting down a path of not providing any details publicly beyond revealing a few small facts and even those put into question their economics - like the fact that it costs them 11,000 to education children event though they are charging only 9,000.
Why does this matter. A few reasons.
- Heatid is claiming to provide a better "21st century" education at less than current schools. But if you do even a modest amount of research (see the Dell foundation report on KIPPP) you will find that blended learning leads to about $1,000 in savings not the over $4,000 in savings that Heatid is claiming. So where are they skimping to see such dramatic savings? - Heatid has been clear that they will increase class sizes in older grades. Again, any basic research will show that blended learning advocates and practicing schools are shooting for 35 plus children in a class. Heatid leaders have been quoted as saying that their consultants have told them they can get even higher class sizes. Is this part of the plan for the future and have parents bought in to 35, 40 or more children in a class? Do parents even know Heatid's plans in this area? - Programs like Rocketship run about $7,000 per child. Heatid is charging $9,000. Is $2,000 per child enough for a full Kodesh program? Are they planning on hiring Rabbis to teach these classes? How can they expect to be so cheap (especially relative to the english side of their program) when blended learning is not really present on the Kodesh side?
There are so many questions that are unanswered. Many have commented that they have seen the economics or that smart business people have signed off on them so they must be sound. And yet, Heatid leaders have said they don't want to publish their economics because they could be misinterpreted. Other schools have the same challenge but have decided to be transparent and provide explanations. Surely Heatid, which is so wonderfully able to communicate online (facebook, youtube, twitter, etc) can find a way to effectively lift the veil of secrecy on their model.
The best I've been able to get was the response from AJE yesterday in the comments section of Monday's post titled "AJE Embraces Innovation"
But just because they haven't fully explained the model doesn't mean there's nothing there. For now at least, the model is saving a hundred families thousands of dollars.
1. Raise money from the community to fund start up costs
2. Pay teachers identical wages to legacy schools but demand the teachers do admin tasks as well.
3. Cram more kids into a class.
4. Don't own a building.
5. Keep telling people "We know what we're doing" despite the fact they have zero educational experience.
7. Have shills claim Heatid is the future and all other schools are ripoffs.
8. Keep citing "proof" from 2 schools despite the fact that there is a MULTITUDE of evidence that blended learning is no better than traditional learning.
9. Ignore the fact that even the few studies that praise blended learning state unequivocably that the only success is from grades six and up. (something Heatid doe not even offer currently, perhaps ever)
YD, what's the old sayings - 'in G-d we trust, all others pay cash'. I assume your reference to GD in the title of this post wasn't referring to the Divine. While He'atid may work, and is certainly a great deal for parents right now - regardless of who is footing the bill - the school's founders claims of 'mission accomplished' before they even opened their doors are bolder than those of President Bush and make me very skeptical. I'm willing to be convinced but until I see the economic model it is hard to take them as more than just great marketers.
The Bitter Truth - If only there were an ounce of truth to your erroneous comments about Heatid. Are you just bitter because a generation of Jews in Bergen County has finally said "enough is enough" to ripoff tuition and excess admins and excess waste?
End Welfare - so then what is the answer to my questions? GD himself has stated on video that the current schools can't cut cost appreciably with their current model and only blended learning makes the lower tuition possible. How are they achieving results that are so much more aggressive than every example they highlight without shortchanging something? If you've seen the economics please tell us the answer.
if GD single handedly saved the bergen county jewish community permitting people to have more children by lowering tuition by 2k just imagine how many babies could be born if people would send to public school.
"if GD single handedly saved the bergen county jewish community permitting people to have more children by lowering tuition by 2k just imagine how many babies could be born if people would send to public school."
But whether warranted or not, people worry that their children will be conceiving babies while in public school.
how about sending for k-4 and switching into jewish school for middle school. If people sent to public for lower school they would be saving $75k per kid and would be able to afford yeshiva high school which in my mind is much more important since kids are dating at that age. seems really backwards that people in our community shell out to much money to send their babies to jewish school and then put them in public for high school. what this community needs is not another yeshiva we need a solid talmud torah to accompany a public school day. that is the only thing that is going to save this jewish community from collapsing. yeshiva tuition is unsustainable. a system where 30-50% of the students are on financial aid is broken
I have been in the TPS middle schools and HS. I have been there during school hours and after hours. After hours, I see drama teams working on their performances, A Capella and chorus clubs rehearsing. Band team practicing. Homework clubs in session. I can go on and on...but I have not seen anyone below 25 walking around expecting a baby.
It is funny that there are dozens of frum kids in THS, but many are reluctant to look at TPS until they are "bankrupt" and out of options so, for HS, without any exposure to the system before HS, their kids are just thrown into that program.
TPS is not perfect, but it is a REAL answer to the tuition crisis. People just dont want to accept that. Some LK tutor or other creative alternative program can instill LK with significant savings over yeshiva tuition.
tps are the only viable long term option. there is just no way to sustain a system where 30-50% have to be on aid. Things would be much better if the community leaders would come to this conclusion sooner rather than later when even more people are driven into debt and bankruptcy. right now there is kosher food in every teaneck public school. If the jewish community sent in mass we would no longer be a minority in the public schools.
The harsh reality is that 9k per kid is even too much. Who knows how much more money we will all be paying on our taxes next year? The job market doesn't seem to be getting any better. The moral costs of tuition are becoming too high. Where do we draw the line for our families and community? When is it OK to say, I'd rather have a parent at home caring for my kids than breaking my back to afford tution. I'm not sure whether Aryeh Klapper's proposed solution is the answer, but he eloquently lays out the moral burden and repercussions on our community. http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/1130/features/the...
"The Bitter Truth - If only there were an ounce of truth to your erroneous comments about Heatid. Are you just bitter because a generation of Jews in Bergen County has finally said "enough is enough" to ripoff tuition and excess admins and excess waste? "
Seems to me that your comment about "ripoff tution" proved BT's point better than anyone.
Teaneck Forever - End Welfare is just one example of the issue at hand. It is clear that many can not afford or are unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary to send a large family to a private religious school. BC needs low cost options but what is crystal clear is that many are not willing to make hard tradeoffs either to send to PS/TT or settle for a no frills option. We want it all but can't afford to pay for it. So along comes a new school with a "new method" that perpetuates the fantasy that we can have it all. But they are not lying. It is right there clearly stated over and over again. Very large class sizes, no support outside the classroom, a low frills Kodesh program, kids sitting in front of computers and rotating through the classroom like parts on an assembly line and, ignore the guy behind the curtain with all the cash who is providing the whole school with scholarships as long as the money lasts.
Harsh assessment? Absolutely. Wrong? Who knows, no details are available to prove otherwise.
I am very involved with Yeshivat Noam, Yavneh and Frisch helping to change each institution. He'Atid's mission statement is that existing institutions cannot be changed. I took those words as a direct challenge. Not only can they change but they are changing. Blended learning is actively on the way. Larger class sizes are on the way. The new "Dynamic Classroom" is on the way . Lowering of tuition is on the way. Stay tuned because its all happening right now. The He'Atid model is a good attempt at change however the model is still based on handouts from within the jewish community. They don't own any infrastructure so of course they can charge a lower fee. The He'Atid model is as unsustainable as the current institutions models are. With respect, without Avi Chai and donations from other jewish families, He'Atid would not be in existence today.
Dan: I'm sure your fellow board members of Noam must be thrilled that you are posting under your real name. Considering some of the schools you mention have 3 teachers in a classroom - do you plan on firing these teachers? None of these schools would have done anything if it wasn't for he'atid. Most people would agree with that. All you legacy lovers should pray that he'atid succeeds because without it, things will return to status quo.
Dan - is the way Noam is changing by hiring a full time blended learning staff as announced recently? How does that equate to the bottom line? One of your stellar principals can't take this on as a project, learn and do research?
I find it funny when GD says we are only losing some families due to aliyah and other logistics because things like siblings in other schools. Isn't that a polite way to say you are not happy? Let me explain. If one had an older child at Yavneh or YNJ, the same logistical set-up existed for this year. Thus, if one is moving, but giving that excuse to He'Atid, it is a "polite" excuse only.
this is BS - if they liked the school that much they would make it work. Its just a nice "excuse". Paying an extra 5K+ a year for the kids to have more shabbos friends............... means they were in it for the model and not the cost savings and they are not happy with the model.
Dan Fried: For someone who is involved with schools, your post shows how little you understand about school finances. EVERY new school needs start up funding. And He'Atid which started with 116 students spent LESS than Noam did 10 years ago when they had less than 50 students.
You also have no clue about how buildings are financed and paid for. It is cheaper on an operating basis to buy than to rent.
I'd suggest you stick to something you know about and not venture into stuff you are completly clueless on.
Sora - . There are parents not sending back because of issues with the school, education and model.. Parents may tolerate certain things in a start up school for pre-k or k given the 9k price point. Some are sticking it out for another year to see how things pan out. only time will tell if they will accept the status quo when serious education begins in 2nd grade and up. Most of the parents have never been in a real school and have no basis for comparison. Heatid's demise will be when the existing schools lower their tuition, if mr fried is right. Why would anyone send to he'atid when you can get yavneh for the same price?
btw guest 4 /teaneck 2012- about 110 out of the 116 students are staying (you can call the school and they wil confirm) and the building is going to be at capacity this year. and some of those 6 or so non returning are making aliyah. Do the math - although the few parents who i spoke to who are leaving told me it is a social issue - even if you dont believe it - looks like overwhelming majority of parents are happy with the model.
right, NOAM bought the building and then completely renovated it to make it a school and only had 50 kids. It should have cost NOAM more to open than He'atid did.
He'atid is merely renting and has 116 kids. it should cost less than when NOAM did it.
building will be at capacity after 2 years, they have a 3 year lease. so now they need to fundraise for "start up costs" and to purchase a new building that will not be at capacity some time. How do they break even after 3 years?
Teaneck2012 - what basis do you have for thinking Mr. Fried is right? What movement in Yavneh tuition has made you think that in the next 5 years Yavneh will cost less than $10k per student? How about less than $11k? Or any of the schools?
I find it hilarious that those who are very animated and outspoken are criticizing anyone who actually puts their name to a comment. Isn't the whole problem with this topic, the need to speak about it secretly/ anonymously/ surreptitiously? If you can't say it in the light of day, shouldn't that at least detract from your position to begin with?
The problem, as I see it, is that people have to complain and suffer in private out of fear of reprisal. Can we at least agree that has to change in order for real problems to be solved?
actually everyone on here is criticizing everyone else, name given or not. and giving a name might make people less likely to say something offensive or plain stupid, but it doesn't mean their statements are any more accurate or truthful.
Sora, heatid supporter, you are animated in your defense of heatid and that is commendable. Can you answer my questions above or provide any more details on heatid's economics. Real details will speak louder than any other comments you can make. A continued lack of details also speaks volumes.
nope - the AJE comments on other posts on this blog were pretty descriptive in how the school is able to cut tuition and save parents money - but for the REAL details, call the school and ask for the contact info of a school board member and then you can hear it from the source.
Sora, that is a bit of a cop out and something no one would accept in context of the current schools. It also has the downside of not being logically sustainable on multiple levels. Much better if the school would simply publish details. Why not do so? Whats the downside? Right now we are all left to wonder what the school has to hide.
better for who? who is left to wonder? clearly the parents who send there are satisfied or if not, they can let the school know or ask their questions. Why should He'atid care about some random guy- Just Saying - on this blog?__But aside from all that - you missed my point - if you want details and accuracy - asking some random person on a blog who is not on the school board /involved in the school is silly. I dont walk around with the He'atid budget on me and most budgets are too long to post on a blog comment. If you want REAL information like you say you do - and your point isnt' just to mention over and over how the school wont give details - call the school and ask them.
Just saying: You have so many misconceptions of what the HeAtid model is all about that it's pointless to communicate via a blog. If you are really interested in learning about the model, call the school and get a tour.
I can confirm that 110 of the 116 kids are coming back. 3 are making Aliyah. So even if you want to claim that the other 3 are unhappy, that's a pretty good ration of happy to unhappy parents.
I have a kid in the school and couldn't be happier. Not only is it cheaper but it is FAR superior to the school my older children attend. It's not even close. Is it perfect? Of course not! But I now understand how much better (and cheaper) it could have been for my other kids.
Who cares. Bottom line the way the economy is going 9k isn't affordable in the long term either. Can we get a guest post on hatikvah charter??? Anyone out there that can comment on the school and experience with sending there and the east Brunswick ortho community.
east brunswick is a great community. not too large, but multiple orthodox shuls and a large conservative population as well. the community is just off the NJT, Exit 9, close to Highland Park, Edison, Rutgers, and there are multople transportation options into Newark / City from E. Brunswick. Considering many commute from Lakewood to NYC each day, E. Brunswick, 40+ minutes closer, this should be rather reasonable.
For 400-500k, you get a reasonably nice size property, large colonial. For 500-700k, you are in the nicer homes. There are many options under 400k. The Public Schools there are very strong, families go to Hatikvah CS, PS and yeshiva. Those that I know in that area are very happy they moved to E. Brunswick and love their shul, options, etc. They do comment that they do come up to Teaneck or the city 4-5 times a year to eat at the "nicer restaurants", but when you consider what you get for your property value, area, etc., it is a no brainer.
Patience please ! It takes time to make the necessary changes that will ultimately bring down tuition costs if it is meant to be. One of the fundamental goals is the implementation of technology to improve higher levels of education. If in the end that does drive down tuition cost (which I know it will) then we will all be successful. Lower tuition in education as a goal in itself is wrong. Driving down tuition costs can and will create mistakes and compromise educational goals. There should be an evolutionary process and then as a result of a well thought out educational plan tuition costs will decrease. As a small small example , Yeshiva Flatbush saved $50,000 in the use of white paper by going paperless in the school curriculum.
Dan: What you're missing is that people can't wait that long for significant change. The system is broken and change needs to happen sooner than later. 50k paper savings for an 800 student school =$62 of savings per kid.
I just read through this transcript and found it interesting even if occasionally inaccurate or not complete in its coverage. The comments are also interesting -- they don't seem relevant to the yeshiva world but they show that the questions floated about the yeshiva system and the alternatives are cropping up elsewhere. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/july-dec...
Logging you in...
ahavat chesed · 639 weeks ago
thatguy · 639 weeks ago
End Welfare · 639 weeks ago
The guy - no doubt with help from others - solved the tuition crises for so many people. Now more children are being born, marriages are being saved. This isn't hyperbole - it is reality. This man has done more to solve the crises in a couple of years than all the legacy and establishment folks have done in decades. So yeh, in GD I trust!
tesyaa · 639 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 639 weeks ago
I have promoted many things on this blog to help with the tuition crisis, besides He'atid. I'm in favor of an "all-in" solution since there is no one magic bullet that will end the crisis overnight. Some things I've included are:
-RYNJ being transparent and issuing a report publicly with a breakdown of its finances
-BPY adding more days to the calendar and working hard to reduce cancellations from weather
-Moriah cracking down on "self-scholarships"
-Yavneh having a Q&A session with parents about financial information with the Board President, Executive Director and principal
-Noam slashing pre-school tuition
-NNJKIDS
-Community Talmud Torah (coupled with a competently run Hebrew charter school)
-JFS and JEC welcoming BC students with comparably lower tuition
-Expected openings of Tiferet Academy and Westchester Torah Academy
-Efforts by the OU and others to encourage legislative solutions such as vouchers and subsidies for certain educational elements that don't include religion.
Most of all I've promoted sanity in the discussion. People sometimes go off the rails when so much money is involved and they get to comment anonymously.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 639 weeks ago
When teachers are so humorless it makes me think we really need computer programs to keep the kids interested.
Just saying · 639 weeks ago
Why does this matter. A few reasons.
- Heatid is claiming to provide a better "21st century" education at less than current schools. But if you do even a modest amount of research (see the Dell foundation report on KIPPP) you will find that blended learning leads to about $1,000 in savings not the over $4,000 in savings that Heatid is claiming. So where are they skimping to see such dramatic savings?
- Heatid has been clear that they will increase class sizes in older grades. Again, any basic research will show that blended learning advocates and practicing schools are shooting for 35 plus children in a class. Heatid leaders have been quoted as saying that their consultants have told them they can get even higher class sizes. Is this part of the plan for the future and have parents bought in to 35, 40 or more children in a class? Do parents even know Heatid's plans in this area?
- Programs like Rocketship run about $7,000 per child. Heatid is charging $9,000. Is $2,000 per child enough for a full Kodesh program? Are they planning on hiring Rabbis to teach these classes? How can they expect to be so cheap (especially relative to the english side of their program) when blended learning is not really present on the Kodesh side?
There are so many questions that are unanswered. Many have commented that they have seen the economics or that smart business people have signed off on them so they must be sound. And yet, Heatid leaders have said they don't want to publish their economics because they could be misinterpreted. Other schools have the same challenge but have decided to be transparent and provide explanations. Surely Heatid, which is so wonderfully able to communicate online (facebook, youtube, twitter, etc) can find a way to effectively lift the veil of secrecy on their model.
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 639 weeks ago
I agree with you. In fact my first blog post questioned how they do it. See http://yeshivasanity.blogspot.com/2011/12/how-doe...
The best I've been able to get was the response from AJE yesterday in the comments section of Monday's post titled "AJE Embraces Innovation"
But just because they haven't fully explained the model doesn't mean there's nothing there. For now at least, the model is saving a hundred families thousands of dollars.
The Bitter Truth · 639 weeks ago
1. Raise money from the community to fund start up costs
2. Pay teachers identical wages to legacy schools but demand the teachers do admin tasks as well.
3. Cram more kids into a class.
4. Don't own a building.
5. Keep telling people "We know what we're doing" despite the fact they have zero educational experience.
7. Have shills claim Heatid is the future and all other schools are ripoffs.
8. Keep citing "proof" from 2 schools despite the fact that there is a MULTITUDE of evidence that blended learning is no better than traditional learning.
9. Ignore the fact that even the few studies that praise blended learning state unequivocably that the only success is from grades six and up. (something Heatid doe not even offer currently, perhaps ever)
10. Charge 2 grand less/kid.
Just saying · 639 weeks ago
End Welfare · 639 weeks ago
Just saying · 639 weeks ago
teaneck · 639 weeks ago
End Welfare · 639 weeks ago
But whether warranted or not, people worry that their children will be conceiving babies while in public school.
teaneck · 639 weeks ago
Teanecker · 639 weeks ago
It is funny that there are dozens of frum kids in THS, but many are reluctant to look at TPS until they are "bankrupt" and out of options so, for HS, without any exposure to the system before HS, their kids are just thrown into that program.
TPS is not perfect, but it is a REAL answer to the tuition crisis. People just dont want to accept that. Some LK tutor or other creative alternative program can instill LK with significant savings over yeshiva tuition.
teaneck · 639 weeks ago
Zev Mo Green · 639 weeks ago
Contact me, if interested, or if already organized.
Anon1 · 639 weeks ago
Anon1 · 639 weeks ago
http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/1130/features/the...
Teaneck Forever · 639 weeks ago
Seems to me that your comment about "ripoff tution" proved BT's point better than anyone.
Just saying · 639 weeks ago
Harsh assessment? Absolutely. Wrong? Who knows, no details are available to prove otherwise.
Dan Fried · 639 weeks ago
Guest1 · 639 weeks ago
Snooze · 639 weeks ago
Sad · 639 weeks ago
Teanecker · 639 weeks ago
Sora · 639 weeks ago
guest4 · 639 weeks ago
Sora · 639 weeks ago
He'Atid Supporter · 639 weeks ago
You also have no clue about how buildings are financed and paid for. It is cheaper on an operating basis to buy than to rent.
I'd suggest you stick to something you know about and not venture into stuff you are completly clueless on.
He'Atid Supporter · 639 weeks ago
Teaneck2012 · 639 weeks ago
Sora · 639 weeks ago
guest4 · 639 weeks ago
He'atid is merely renting and has 116 kids. it should cost less than when NOAM did it.
guest4 · 639 weeks ago
doesn't make sense
Sora · 639 weeks ago
Zev Mo Green · 639 weeks ago
The problem, as I see it, is that people have to complain and suffer in private out of fear of reprisal. Can we at least agree that has to change in order for real problems to be solved?
Sora · 639 weeks ago
Just saying · 639 weeks ago
Sora · 639 weeks ago
Just saying · 639 weeks ago
Sora · 639 weeks ago
He'Atid Supporter · 639 weeks ago
I can confirm that 110 of the 116 kids are coming back. 3 are making Aliyah. So even if you want to claim that the other 3 are unhappy, that's a pretty good ration of happy to unhappy parents.
I have a kid in the school and couldn't be happier. Not only is it cheaper but it is FAR superior to the school my older children attend. It's not even close. Is it perfect? Of course not! But I now understand how much better (and cheaper) it could have been for my other kids.
Hmmmm · 639 weeks ago
Teaneck Logic · 639 weeks ago
For 400-500k, you get a reasonably nice size property, large colonial. For 500-700k, you are in the nicer homes. There are many options under 400k. The Public Schools there are very strong, families go to Hatikvah CS, PS and yeshiva. Those that I know in that area are very happy they moved to E. Brunswick and love their shul, options, etc. They do comment that they do come up to Teaneck or the city 4-5 times a year to eat at the "nicer restaurants", but when you consider what you get for your property value, area, etc., it is a no brainer.
Teaneck Logic · 639 weeks ago
Did you get any responses? Are you moving your children to TPS?
Dan Fried · 639 weeks ago
Anon2555 · 639 weeks ago
throneaway · 639 weeks ago
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/july-dec...