The calendars for next year are out. Not surprisingly, He'atid once again leads the pack in total school days with 178. Though for some reason He'atid clone Westchester Torah Academy has only 172. I still think we should have as many days as the public schools, which have 180. We can make up for the chagim by adding days in June.
He'atid is having Professional Development day on Christmas, rather than on election day as most schools do (except this past year, when we needed to make up days lost to superstorm Sandy). So I guess the consultants are all Jewish & don't mind working then.
I'm a little concerned about Thanksgiving break being called Thanksgiving/Channukah break. Does that mean that when Channukah & Thanksgiving are on different days that they will need 2 separate breaks?
[Update: Harlem Hebrew will have 190 days. Though I'm guessing the high number was designed to help them accommodate the many students who will be taking off for Jewish holidays and who will need to make up for lessons lost]
Why should this surprise anyone? Gershon has proved the naysayers wrong yet again! They said he could never get the school off the ground. Year 1 was a resounding success and almost all parents are thrilled.
ReplyDeleteI keep on hearing that he is going to open a high school. I so hope those rumors are true!
There are many parents who are still in wait and see mode. There will be much less tolerance for the many mistakes made this year.
ReplyDelete"There will be much less tolerance for the many mistakes made this year."
ReplyDeletePeople tolerate the stupidity/mistakes our legacy schools make and they have been around for years.
Reminder: Please use screen names other than "guest" or "anonymous"
ReplyDeleteThanks,
YD
This is nothing guys. Remember, don't you dare be so insensitive as to even ask a JDS educator what they are doing this summer . Check out this blog post by one such educator:
ReplyDeletehttp://jewishedd.blogspot.com/2013/06/what-are-you-doing-for-summer.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Sounds like BS. How many hours a week does the average teacher work in the summer? How do they explain how some teachers work at a summer camo in July & August and somehow are ready for school in September?
ReplyDelete"Remember, don't you dare be so insensitive as to even ask a JDS educator what they are doing this summer."
ReplyDeleteI believe it was once said on another blog that those who can't hack it with the big boys in New York City tend to be the ones who go into Jewish education and then whine and complain that they may have to occasionally do a bit of prep work over their TWO MONTH long summer vacation. Excuse me while I go cry you all a river.......
I agree with both you guys. I was being very sarcastic. Also, the idea that these teachers are going to tell me what my average day is like is preposterous.
ReplyDelete"occasionally do a bit of prep work"? Is "occasionally "everyday?
ReplyDelete" How do they explain how some teachers work at a summer camp in July & August and somehow are ready for school in September?" To make ends meet they work a job and prep in the evenings and weekends. You'd rather they be poor, or just unprepared?
My god, are you people really that stupid? You expect that your children's teachers are versed in content and pedagogy and able to deal with the hellions that you unleash after poisoning them with a disdain for education and educators. You have no clue, and want no clue as to what it takes to be a teacher. All your self important jobs shuffling papers and sitting in cubicles which require oh, so much energy and are worth so much money so you can look down your noses at the people whom you entrust your children to. You know what? If teachers didn't prep constantly, didn't establish active and dynamic professional networks to self assess and improve, and didn't work to evolve as experts who care deeply for the work and the future, you would know it and complain that "my kid had a bad teacher." I defy ANY one of you to dump your job, take the pay cut, and do a half decent job as a teacher. I won't say that I don't think you could because it isn't a matter of thinking. I know you couldn't because the attitudes towards teaching and teachers I see here indicate a serious psychological block which would make you abject failures in the classroom. That teachers keep showing up when they are dealing with the spawn of people who think so little of them and their work as highly trained and skilled specialists is the real miracle. I have been to plenty of bad doctors, bad finance guys and bad lawyers who often seem to be on vacation or "away from their desks" to know that what teachers do over 12 months puts most other "professionals" to shame. So you can all go off and insult teachers and teaching all you want. Attack my comment if it makes you happy (and don't forget to start guessing who I am and what I do for a living -- hint...I'm posting from work right now). But the bottom line is the disrespect you show here is the real cause for the destruction of the Jewish future.
I also defy any of you to say any of this to your child's teacher, face to face, instead of hiding here and slamming teachers. Let your kid's teacher know how little you think of her and what she does. That teacher who wrote the blog referenced above gave his name. Call him up and talk to him about why you don't value how hard he works in the summer. You won't do it. Cowards.
i remember when i was a kid, the pta had a day where parents subbed and gave the teachers a day off. it ended up being a pain for the teachers, but it showed the parents that even subbing for one day wasn;t so easy. parents seemed to be a bit nicer to the teacher after having to keep the kids in line for just one dfay.
ReplyDeleteFirst, anonymous teacher, why don't you give your name before calling the rest of us cowards. The blogger at issue picked this fight by assuming to know what the average day of a lawyer is. As a lawyer, I can tell you, he has no idea what he is talking about. From 9 to 4, I am either in court, on the phone, with clients, or in meetings with other lawyers. I do not get to my work, research or writing till after 4:00 p.m. Please do not touch the compensation issue, because you have no idea what the rest of us make. Many non-teachers make the same as teachers. You may not want to believe it but it is true. You talk about disrespect? The blogger in question disrespected all of us by assuming to know what we are thinking when we ask a rather benign question of "what are you doing this summer."
ReplyDeleteso you assume I'm a teacher? Interesting. Because, clearly, only a teacher would defend teachers. The blogger in question (though not actually in question...the topic of the post was the calendar and the number of days and you dragged in this post to attack the blogger in question and by extension, "a JDS educator") made the point that others presume to know the summer of an educator. Try reading it. He did nothing to "pick a fight" unless you think that explaining his summer is somehow offensive to you. In fact, he didn't even make his response to the question "what are you doing this summer" -- to that, he gave an answer, that he works. But the follow up question, which reflects a misunderstanding of what teachers do required more explanation. He presented his summer work. He didn't address anyone else's. This is a fight he picked? Sensitive much? The blog says nothing to diminish the amount of work done by lawyers. Try reading phrases like "A lawyer prepares and researches countless hours when working on a case, but only spends part of that time working directly with the clients." Is that in conflict with your assessment of your day? Nope. It simply drew a parallel to the idea that not all of what is considered the "work" in any profession is in the face time with the client. So go, get offended at someone else who didn't read the blog so you can misrepresent it to him.
ReplyDeleteAnd as to the compensation issue, which I am happy to touch: teachers earn a range. Some get a sub-minimum wage, sub-poverty level wage and some do quite nicely. The ones who work in camp over the summer are often the ones who have to. But, again, you miss the point. This doesn't mean that those teachers don't prep and yet are still ready in September.
And as to your question about why I remain anonymous (and note the irony, Mr./Mrs. Unimpressed), much has to do with the disrespect I see people pile on others here. Why should I throw my hat into that ring and invite people to insult me by name?
Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease pick a different screen name. It is very confusing to the discussion when multiple commentators use the same screen name. I don't want to delete your comments after you put so much effort into them so I'll let it slide this time but please change it for the future.
Thanks,
YD
I, for one, am not disparaging teachers at all. Merely pointing out that to claim they work a full-time job in the summer is ridiculous. They work far fewer hours than the average breadwinner in a JDS family (even during the school year) and yes, they get paid less too.
ReplyDeleteWhere did I disparage a teacher? Teachers work very hard; we all know that. But the notion that they work any harder from September to June than any one else, simply because they are teachers is false and baseless. To assume that anyone means anything negative by simply asking the perfectly appropriate question of, "what you are doing this summer," is insulting and unfair. I, personally find it scary that there are educators out there than make points which are not based on any facts, assume things about people that are not true, the way this blogger did. These are the people entrusted with educating our children?
ReplyDeleteYeshiva Dad, quick question (I have latched on a bit late) -- where is the claim that teachers work a full time job in the summer? The last 2 paragraphs of Rabbi Ross's statement say quite the opposite. Is there a separate claim to that effect somewhere that people are responding to?
ReplyDeleteUnimpressed -- Rabbi Ross seemed to be answering ""Over the summer?! You work?!"" in his piece, and I don't see that he says that teachers work harder than anyone else. Just that we work. He also doesn't infer anything negative, just that he is baffled that people think that teachers don't work at all, as indicated by that followup question which he has been asked. As a teacher, I have been asked it often and I agree that it is strange to think that people are still possessed of this sense that teachers don't work over the summer.
I am sorry that you took something in what he wrote as an attack; I simply don't see it in his language, but if you show me where it is, maybe I can understand your position better.
Dan Rosen
Daniel: Read the beginning. He suggest that we all are ignorant of what a teacher does, that we think a teacher embarks on some "utopian getaway" and that are questions are "baffling." Baffling? No exactly complimentary. Even his quotes are not direct quotes just his notion that our questions go "something like this . . . " What is he so baffled about when we ask the questions. Many teachers work in camps so we ask what are you doing this summer. Even you interpret our comments as "strange." I also take umbrage with him assuming what the average day for the rest of us is like. How many hours do you teach a day Dan? Your day ends around 4? 5? Correct? And, only then can you get to your non teaching work (i.e., prep work, marking, parent interaction, etc.) I get that but what you and the blogger have to realize is that we have the same days as well. I do not get to some of my non-client interaction work till after 4. Finally, thank you for using your real name. I commend you for that, Seriously. Unfortunately, I cannot.
ReplyDeleteUnimpressed -- just to clarify, my work day goes from 7:45 to 5:30 in school, then I work in the evenings and weekends, depending on what the particular demands are. Sometimes that means 5 hours on a Sunday and 1 hour at night, sometimes more, sometimes, nothing. His point is that he is baffled by what people say. I am baffled also. You are offended that he is baffled by something? He suggests that people who say "You work?" are ignorant of the fact that teachers work. That seems to be rather explicitly a subtext of the question, doesn't it? Why would you ask "you work?" if you knew someone worked?
ReplyDeleteAgain, he isn't baffled by "what are you doing this summer" -- to that he gives a simple and unadorned answer "Same thing I do the rest of the year - going to work." The followup which reflects a lack of knowledge is what he is confused by, as am I. I have taught for 20 years. Even my friends who have seen me go to work over the summer still seem surprised when I remind them that I go to work over the summer, and yes, I am baffled by that. But then they are baffled at how I can forget what they do for a living. Fact is, it isn't always important to me so I don't think about it or commit it to memory no matter how often they explain it. But they are still baffled.
And I don't see that Rabbi Ross says anything about a lawyer's day which contradicts what you say. His only point is that the teacher's day should be thought of in the same way: as you agree, that we get to a whole bunch of work beyond the face-time hours with clients. And as to your name, I won't ask it. I understand the need for anonymity sometimes (though identifiable anonymity, @YD) but I am a teacher and am happy to answer questions which people have about my profession.
d
Dan: Whether your day ends at 4, 5 or 6 is not the issue. The point is that for many of us we do not get to our non-client/non-customer interaction work until after that hour. I, like many nonteachers, work Sundays. People ask me Sunday morning at minyan, "What are you doing today?" I am not "baffled" by that question. Why is he ? Why are you ? I am not "confused," so why are you? His reference to a lawyer's day is not consistent with what I say. He distinguishes a teacher from a lawyer by stating, "A lawyer prepares and researches countless hours when working on a case, but only spends part of that time working directly with the clients." That is just not true. Most days, not getting to our prep or research until after the day ends. Further, teachers do spend time during the day not with students. I have seen with my own eyes, teachers grading papers and preping for classes during the school day in between classes.
ReplyDeleteYou might say that whether I end at 4, 5 or 6 is not the issue and that's fine, but I was responding to your direct question of "Your day ends around 4?"
ReplyDeleteIf you work in a job in the US, there is often a presumption that you have a 5 day work week. So if I hear that you are working on a Sunday, I might say "wow, really?" But I have enough friends who go in to the office on Saturday nights and Sundays to be inured to that. Somehow, few people have become equally familiar with the notion that a teacher works over the summer. And even then, what Rabbi Ross responds to isn't "Do teachers still work over the summer?" but, after asserting that he does work over the summer, the incredulous "you work?" Yes, I find it baffling that in this day and age, people can not only not know that a teacher could have work over the summer, but that, after stating this, people still ask as a confirmation in a way which casts doubt over the legitimacy of the position asserted. Imagine if you, as a child, were asked "who broke this lamp?" You say, "not me" and the adult looks and says "really?" The child has the right to be confused and say "what? You don't believe me?"
And as far as I can tell, he is NOT distinguishing the lawyer from the teacher in the quote you give. He is actually drawing them together through the following line "A teacher needs to do the same thing". Your objection arises when he asserts, after that, that the teacher, because his day is driven by class time (and prep time is only given as an adjunct if at all) is kept from starting much of the research and prep work by dint of consistent and formal schedule and that this, in particular, is not the same as in the case of a lawyer. Are you baffled or confused by this assertion? Why? A lawyer does not necessarily have a fixed and imposed schedule which precludes or marginalizes research and prep as part of the predictable daily routine. A teacher does; that's just the nature of a school day -- it is defined by classroom time, every day. That is why many contracts for teachers have to mandate prep-periods -- specifically so that the teacher has some small section of the day not meeting with the student-clients. That those times are often used to meet with client-parents or other stakeholders is a separate issue.
d
Dan: Why do you opine on what a lawyer's day consists of ? Were you a lawyer before you went into teaching. My day adheres to a rigorous schedule as well; dictated by when I am required to be in Court, when a client is available to meet with me and when other lawyers can meet as well. I am also glad that you have told me that teachers are now negotiating prep-periods into their contracts; I never would have known that by just reading the blogger's blog entry. Yes, in the US there are presumptions that people work 5 days a week but are there not presumptions about teachers based on the fact that a good number of them do work in Camp. So, hence, what is so baffling about the question? Could the hypothetical follow-up of "you work," after already having the question answered, be interpreted as obnoxious or silly? Yes. I have never asked such a follow-up and have never heard someone being asked that follow-up directly wither. We all are on the receiving end of silly questions, as a lawyer I can tell you I have received more of them then you. But maybe, just maybe, it was understandable given the blogger's initial and very defensive and insecure response of "Same thing I do the rest of the year - going to work" to a perfectly appropriate initial question.
ReplyDeleteI don't opine on a lawyer's day, I reflect based on lawyers whom I know. Their schedules are based in court or office time, but those schedules are variable and can't be predicted 9 months ahead of time. As a teacher, I can say with certainty that in 8 months, on a Tuesday, between the hours of x and y, I will be unable to do any prep or non-classroom time because my existence as a teacher will be defined by my required presence in the classroom.
ReplyDeleteI also was careful not to say that teachers are negotiating prep-periods. Private school, non-unionized teachers don't have guaranteed prep periods and it is not often a subject of negotiation. I can't say what the national presumptions are about teachers -- I haven't worked in camp for 20 years but I know some teachers who do or who have (the first, I met 28 years ago..she was a veteran public school kindergarten teacher who couldn't make ends meet on her teacher salary). I think that (if I had to hazard a guess) there is more of a presumption that teachers simply don't work over the summer because people see the school calendar as reflected by their kids. If the kids aren't in the building, teachers have "off."
I guess I just don't see "Same thing I do the rest of the year - going to work." as any more defensive or insecure than you see "you work?" as baffling. I have been asked that follow question of "you work?" many times. I have even had follow ups to that which get more insulting or at least baffling [things like "no way! Don't you guys just sit around all summer or travel?"]. And as to your claim that you get more silly questions than I do, while I can't quantify, I would caution you about being so sure about this. I work with teenagers.
d
Dan: Do not caution me because, as you readily admit, you cannot quantify it.
ReplyDeleteFurther, are not we all on the receiving end of silly questions all the time? Do not extrapolate from idiots who say "Don't you guys just sit around all summer or travel?" I can tell you that neither I nor anyone I know have ever said such a stupid thing.
You reflect on lawyers you know and others reflect on teachers they know. So if you can conclude based on your reflecting upon lawyers, why cannot others conclude based on their reflecting upon teachers they know? It is indisputable that many teachers travel.
Again, you admit that you are merely thinking and/or guessing about people's presumptions. Do not do that.
If teachers' contracts "have to mandate prep-periods" that means that someone, on behalf of teachers negotiated for that. I know that having worked on these contracts myself.
Any readers who have kids in Moshava Ba'ir (in the Frisch building) should stop by Dan's office when they pick up their kids. See if he's there.
ReplyDeleteIf you have kids in camp Kef (in BPY's building) you should take a look at how many teachers are in there working. My money is on 0. Any takers?
Unimpressed -- I caution you because you make an unequivocal statement which I believe might be in error. Your statement of fact is equally unquantifiable so I think you shouldn't make it. I am guessing and presuming, as are those who do not know that I work as you are when you impute the emotion of "defensive" to Rabbi Ross's response, or when you call questions asked of you "silly." Do not do that.
ReplyDeleteI said I am reflecting on lawyers I know when I say that they cannot predict that, consistently, they will be dealing solely with court, or with clients in 8 months' time. Are you reflecting on teachers you know when you say that during the school year, they are not defined by their classroom presence?
Y_D -- I don't have an official office -- I spend much of my time working in the main office or one of the teachers' rooms, working on my summer work which is in addition to my teaching responsibilities. I did have 2 informal meetings today with other teachers about planning for next year. That happens on most days, in addition to more formal plenary discussions. However, Next week I will be spending 3 days at a local Ed Conference with many other teachers who are trying to get better at what we do, but not on school time. And during August we will be having computer boot camps for teachers to help them learn and integrate technology into classes in a more cohesive and effective way. I also have a bunch of required novels to read and notes to take on them so if you see me at Lazy Bean engrossed in a book, it is either summer reading or a pedagogical text (yesterday I read Big Picture: Education Is Everyone's Business by Dennis Littky).
Or, check the beit medrash. I am learning Eiruvin for a siyum next week. After that, I'm considering Rosh Hashanah. Shall I tell you anything else of my schedule so you can see if I am telling the truth?
Daniel: I make my statements of teachers based on the same level of experience and knowledge that you and the blogger make of everyone else. If you guys are allowed to reflect on everyone else, so to everyone else is allowed to reflect on teachers. The blogger's response cannot be interpreted as anything but defensive. I am not imputing. It was a perfectly appropriate initial question of, "what are you doing this summer?" The clear premise of his response of: "Same thing I do the rest of the year - going to work" is that the initial question is somehow out of bounds as if there should not have ever been a "Ha-Avah Aminah" to even ask such a question. It is the equivalent of saying "why are you even asking me that question?" or "Why are you not asking anyone else that question?" It is defensive because he is defending himself against an attack that is not there. It is an attack on the actual question, it is defensive and it is hostile. Think about that, and use your common sense, before co-opting my instruction of "Do not do that."
ReplyDelete" The blogger's response cannot be interpreted as anything but defensive."
ReplyDeleteYes it can. I know because I did. To tell the entire world that there is one definitive interpretation of a statement seems like a bad idea. Do not do that.
You are assuming that "Same thing I do the rest of the year - going to work" is something more than a statement of fact, and yet the question which prompts it is purely and completely an innocent inquiry. You can't have it both ways. If it is reasonable to see his response as defensive, it is equally reasonable to see the question as offensive. Please, do not create a double standard and tell the whole world what interpretations they are allowed to have.
Dan: You just conceded my point. You are absolutely right that "[t]o tell the world that there is one definitive interpretation of a statement seems like a bad idea." Then, the blogger at issue should never have done that which you label a "bad idea." In fact, that is exactly what he did when he interpreted the questions he takes issue with as follows: "presumably expecting that I will be taking a well-deserved couple of months in some tropical paradise, inevitably inquire about which utopian getaway I will be frequenting from the moment that my students leave the school building until the moment they return at the end of vacation." He should never have done that. That is unfair. We all know how hard teachers work and how important their summers are for preparation work. It was presumptious of him and does not help or resolve any bad feelings that might be there between teachers and nonteachers. In any event, we can agree to disagree but I do commend and thank you for participating in this discussion.
ReplyDeleteI see you have all abandoned Judaism for an intolerant form of Puritanism where you are evaluating peoples worth on if they work hard enough... Idle hands are the devil's workshop and all that...
ReplyDeleteI mean, shouldn't we all strive to work some 6 days to appreciate Shabbat, take some time to learn Torah every day, and then spend as much time as possible with our children that are only in our homes for a short period of time?
Or do you think that your piece of Haba Olam will depend on how many Sundays you worked?
- Miami Al, who just enjoyed spending quality time at the beach, in the pool, and BBQing with friend and his children over an extended Holiday Weekend... plus really enjoyed spending Shabbat with my children not exhausted for a change after a relaxing work week.