Friday, July 26, 2013

AJE Founder Responds to Rabbi Krauss

First off, let me say that I believe the overall quality of the Jewish high school system to be outstanding. I am blown away by the quality of education being offered our high schoolers. But this quality has come at a devastating cost and price to our community. The emphasis of trying to get our kids into the best colleges, offer  the  most extra curriculars, the most AP’s, the arms race to attract the best and most expensive teachers, has not come cheaply and is in fact crippling our community. We are losing countless students to public schools, less Jewish children are being born, marriages are strained, and we are fostering resentment towards religion amongst our parents due to this unfortunate situation of ever escalating tuition costs.

 I believe that in their zealousness to address the ever escalating costs of high school education and to assure parents that their children will still be receiving a quality education even at a lower price point, Gershon and Jeff overreached and were off base in attacking the quality of our educational system. You correctly call them to task for it.  They have acknowledged their mistake. That having been said, I would be remiss if I did not respectfully point out  you have engaged in some overreaching of your own and in the spirit of everyone learning from each other, I think there are some things that Gershon in his actions has accomplished in the last few years you are not giving enough credit to.

Your dismissiveness of Yeshivat Heatid is unfortunate. You say you are skeptical a quality Jewish education can be offered at half the price . But why? It is being done at Yeshivat Heatid . Yeshivat Heatid will be cash flow break even towards the end of next year and by all accounts, parent satisfaction of education quality is extremely high,  they have attracted quality teachers and are offering a top notch Jewish education. Westchester Torah Academy has likewise attracted top notch educators.  These are real live living and breathing institutions that are not just talking but acting to make a difference to ease the devastating financial burdens of our community.  Just as you were rightly offended by what you perceived as an assault on the  level of education in the Jewish high school movement, we in the affordable Jewish education movement are offended by your attack on our newly formed schools and on the existing schools we are working with  such as HALB (that is roughly half the price of SAR and has been in existence just as long)  whose leaders are credentialed educators who also give a lot of thought into best practices in education and are providing children with a high quality Jewish education. You say time will tell whether these institutions can be successful? Why? They are incredibly successful already. Quality of education has subjective elements to it. Affordability does not. Our schools are offering a price point that works for the community. The higher “quality” schools, should they continue as the only options in the community, clearly do not.

 Rabbi Krauss, you know I admire your contribution to Jewish education and feel that SAR day school thanks to your leadership, is the very best in Jewish day school education, but your implication that a school like SAR high school at nearly 35 k a year is the ONLY way to serve the community is misguided and must be denounced in the strongest terms.   We are not saying that all schools must adopt cost cutting and innovative teaching  methods we espouse but we do feel very strongly that there needs to be an affordable option in all major population centers where successful Jewish parents earning north of 250k annually can send their child, receive a quality education and not have to get undressed asking for scholarship.



I think taking a step back and examining Gershon’s actions in regards to starting a new high school in Bergen County is helpful. Gershon first met with administrators, educators and board members of existing high schools before embarking on his journey. Only after coming up empty in these meetings did he admirably throw down the gauntlet and say enough is enough. Gershon is launching an exploratory venture to launch a new institution that will provide a quality high school Jewish education at a price point that will accommodate parents across all income levels. Of course he doesn’t have the answers yet, he is at the beginning of a very important journey and while he may have overreached as to the need for better education, I think it’s equally clear he UNDERSTATED the need for an affordable, high quality option. Incredibly, that is something in 2013 that IS unavailable in the current marketplace.

We need to think from the bottom up. Let’s start with what can the community afford and then figure out how we can offer the most within that budget. I think as Gershon and others have proven in the day school arena, we will find the answer to be a lot. Gershon has consulted and intends to consult and learn from as many educators as possible. Any suggestion to the contrary is unfair.

We at AJE have not made a decision whether to support Gershon financially in this new high school. But given what he has accomplished on the day school level, I imagine when all is said and done, we will. The 80 percent in our community,  the middle earners, have been neglected for far too long and the movement kicked off by Gershon and his co-founders at the day school level has at long last brought relief and a ray of hope. I hope you can forgive him for his overzealousness in promoting his exploratory venture given what he has accomplished in a short time for Jewish education, reversing a destructive trend that was forty  years in the making.

Mark Nordlicht
Founder, Affordable Jewish Education Project

Comments (198)

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End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

Wow! Rabbi Krauss just got owned by AJE!
it would be nice if GD himself issued some sort of statement to the same email list he used in the 1st place.

I still don't understand how AJE or GD or anyone can claim victory in the low cost high quality day school option after just 1 year with an early childhood. You will need at least 5 years to see the sustainability of the model. once they embark on middle school, have a building and the volunteer enthusiasm has subsided
I think GD can claim a huge victory. A week ago, people were ranting on blogs. A few days ago, he had an unsolicited email complaint.

Now he has a high school being legitimized with SAR, one of the top Jewish Prep Schools in the nation.

Rabbi Krauss screwed up, BADLY. He dragged his established institution with a proven track record into the gutter and rendered himself an equal to a guy whose run a two grade elementary school with an attached PreK and so far has only sent out an email.

And with his poorly written communication, he backed people into a corner to virtually pledge their support for GD's new High School.

How can this be anything but a victory for GD's vapor-school?
If GD wasn't on to something, Rabbi Krauss wouldn't have bothered responding. The fact that he did shows that he feels threatened. People like Rabbi Krauss have been telling their communities for years that there is no other way other than to spend tons of money on Jewish education. GD is calling him out in it and he has no choice but to just go on the defensive.
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
i would love to hear more about all the administrators etc GD met with and in what sense he came "empty." what was his expectation for change and what wasn't met? as a parent of kids in legacy schools i know that my kids' teachers have been very open and receptive to ideas and suggestions. how come he came up empty but others haven't?

i also would love to hear about how excellent education is measured for lower elementary grades. are there tests that the students took that can be compared to other schools?
Thatguy: tests are a poor way of demonstrating quality. The best line in Nordlicht's piece was - "Quality of education has subjective elements to it" so true.
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

Score one for the Messiah!
I'm a teacher at a legacy school and am supportive of He'Atid but "Thatguy" is onto something.
Was there a parent survey done? Was there a teacher survey? How have you gathered the results of the current education model and student outcomes? Whatever the tests or subjective elements are, if you've got this in the bag, share so other schools can learn.
I don't understand the underlying assumption that R' Krauss and others like him always make. They assume that EVERYONE has to attend the same kind of school, and pay $17+k of tuition. That makes no sense at all, we don't all live in $750k houses, some of us live in $200k houses, some in $500k houses, and some in $1M+ houses. The same applies to cars, to vacations, to food and to everything else. So why do they think education is somehow different? What is wrong with varying schools, some with $10k tuition, some with $17k tuition, and some with $35k tuition? Each family will choose the kind of education they want and can afford and will send their children to the place with the best fit.

Furthermore, why is it legitimate to have schools separated by hashkafa, but not separated by affordability? Especially when the differences of hashkafa are often quite small (see "narcissism of small differences").

Shabbat Shalom everyone.
More double talk:

"Gershon and Jeff overreached and were off base in attacking the quality of our educational system. You correctly call them to task for it. They have acknowledged their mistake."

When did they acknowledge their mistake?
Are you saying that Gershon and Jeff no longer believe the schools are "failing"?
What then was the point of the survey?

It's nice in this day and age for people to say they are wrong and apologize when making a mistake. But has anyone heard GD admiting he was wrong? If so could you point to the place where he did that?
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

"But has anyone heard GD admiting he was wrong?"

Ain't nothing "wrong" about saving parents from dire financial straits by founding Heatid. If anything, the only "wrong" GD committed was not resigning from a certain legacy school's board years earlier and getting Heatid off the ground even sooner than he ultimately did.
2 replies · active 609 weeks ago
The Truth's avatar

The Truth · 609 weeks ago

I am not quite sure where Gershon Distenfeld committed such a wrong.

First, if you read his initial email he actually used the word "EXCELLENT" when referring to the existing schools.

Second, he only used the word "FAILING" when referring to whether or not our schools are imparting a love of yiddishkeit in our children. Is that such an outlandish statement? I do not think so.

Finally, he stated that our existing schools are in need of improvement. Do you really disagree with that? Are you saying that he is wrong in that regard, that our schools are actually perfect in every regard?
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
All these people have way too much time on their hands. Maybe it's the summer vacation. I can't understand all these big, important people having out like this in public over a school that exists only in an email. Clearly there's a very raw nerve here if these people see fit to talk like this in such a public manner. Frankly, it's just embarrassing.
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

"Frankly, it's just embarrassing."

What's even more embarrassing is that the middle class of Bergen County ($175k - 275k) of been putting up with the nonsense and insane pricing of the legacy schools for as long as we did. We should be embarrassed of ourselves. We let the Winthrop Board Members (not including GD) run ripshod over all of us for decades while those on scholarship and those who are Winthrops get all the breaks.
Definitely looks like a revised message. The email said tweaking the schools was not sufficient and there needs to be an "overhaul." Now it's "We are not saying that all schools must adopt cost cutting and innovative teaching methods we espouse but we do feel very strongly that there needs to be an affordable option."
Abraham I.'s avatar

Abraham I. · 609 weeks ago

if someone wants to start a high school, that person can spend 2 decades mired in analyzing data and interviewing every educator and parent out there. At a certain point you just have to go for it. As a happy He'Atid parent (who was expecting and would have been understanding of far more first year issues than there actually were), I'm happy about the prospect of a more affordable high school. Once it's launched any issues can be worked out.
End Welfare,

The issue is that from the perspective of the existing schools (such as SAR), their pricing model is extremely fair. They set a certain price and then collect donations so they can give out scholarships to whoever cannot afford that price. They would argue if you cannot afford to pay, we have ample scholarships available, just apply for it. In a sense, what they're arguing is that all they do is engage in price discrimination.

From their perspective, the real issue is that high income earners who are pinched don't want to apply for scholarships and feel unsuccessful or degraded. They think the answer is "middle class" abatements.

That's really what's going on here.
The sheer notion that middle class is 175-275k is just ridiculous. People are being priced out of orthodoxy. You want to know why there are issues with yiddishkeit - it's because it's too hard. Parents don't spend enough time with their kids, families are stretched and even 9k is too much for many. Parents are too busy working to bring home the bacon.

Since Berei**** the Jewish community has continued because of the transfer of Judaism through the home from generation to generation. Only in the last 50-60 years is there a concept of day school education. There is absolutely a huge value to an inclusive Jewish education. I'm not going to debate that. However the price that the community is currently paying and will continue to pay is just far too great.

There must be some level of sanity being brought to this discussion. People need to stop being sheep and devise a realistic plan with local public school systems that will provide a workable solution for a talmud torah. You might say it's not inclusive and you don't want to expose your children to "goyim" but it's preparing our dear children for the real world where they will need to interact with those outside the 4 walls of Teaneck. The mormons do it. There is no reason why we can't do it too. Everyone is simply too scared.

You can read more about "release" for religious education below.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765603214/Hebr...
1 reply · active 608 weeks ago
I've been following these developments closely but this is my first post. I'm a community leader down at Yeshiva University's annual leadership conference. Dr. Scott Goldberg gave a presentation this morning where he emphatically said that Jewish education is failing.

I have no idea as to whether what Mr. Distenfeld is suggesting is a good idea or not, but I do find it humerous that he's being criticized for something than any unbiased observer knows. We are failing. It's not the fault of any particular educator or school, many of which are doing good work and are well-meaning. It's just an undeniable fact at this point.
2 replies · active 609 weeks ago
Please share the reasons he cited for failure.
14 replies · active 608 weeks ago
Is the answer watered down schools? If I send my child to 8k pre-k at heatid, i am spending more than many of the local preschool programs that do a fine job at 6-7.5k. Also, I recall GD saying that up until 2nd or 3rd grade, schools are MAKING MONEY on young children, breaking even in the middle years and the costs for middle school are what kills their budget. If that is true, and heatid's history is PK, K and 1, we cannot really analyze if the budget will work in 3 or 4 years from now.

The stigma and status of using public schools in our communities, if you ask me, is the REAL issue. If a family with 4 kids used public school, 1 kid in HS, 3 in k-8, they are saving about 70-75k after tax dollars. The children can have hand's one Jewish camp experience, 2-3 weeks in Israel and a Jewish tutor 2x a week for well, well under 70-75k. Perhaps the family puts 10k away for children's college education. 10k for retirement. 25k a year less in debt.

I know many think it is nuts, but perhaps this is what is a LONG-TERM solution for many families.
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

The social stigma of sending to public school is too much to bear for 99.99% of typical MO parents in Bergen County. Otherwise, it is a great idea.
You have to literally have your head in the sand to think that Jewish education is succeeding. We are bankrupting families, graduating way too many kids who have a complete disinterest in Judiasm and are woefully unprepared for the real world. Only in the bubble of an existing Jewish day school can anyone believe that we are succeeding.
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

"graduating way too many kids who have a complete disinterest in Judiasm and are woefully unprepared for the real world."

In fairness, I don't think all of the disinterest in Judaism can be blamed on the legacy institutions. At least some of it comes from adults thinking critically for the first time about whether everything they were taught about the religion really is true.
Most disappointing about Mr. Nordlicht's note is the statement "Gershon first met with administrators, educators and board members of existing high schools before embarking on his journey". My understanding is that he indeed meet with some people to tell them that their schools are failing and that he is launching a new school.

"Only after coming up empty in these meetings did he admirably throw down the gauntlet and say enough is enough.". Coming up empty from what? He never solicited their help or partnership just told them he was opening competition. The points in Norlicht's note imply that somehow he reached out but was rebuffed when this was never the case. I don't understand the need to imply otherwise except to show somehow how reasonable Distenfeld is when in truth he has been incredibly combative and at times openly offensive towards the current schools when it was never warranted.
2 replies · active 609 weeks ago
There is always room for a watered down economical yeshiva like heatid. The joke is that the heatid cheerleaders are trying like crazy to show that their school is so much better than the others.

Just admit your school is chevy to the legacy school's lexus model and I think you will solve most of the problems. Of course, when you try to convince everyone that your chevy is a lexus (and that the lexus has massive problems) is when you raise the ire of everyone else in the community.
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

"He never solicited their help or partnership just told them he was opening competition."

I don't know as much about the high school situation, but anyone who knows anything, knows that GD worked long and hard to try and get legacy schools (and one in particular) to reform their ways before giving up on them and founding Heatid.
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
If the yeshivot do not start having a tuition abatement program, similar to Moriah, many families, sooner or later, will turn to the public school system and allow the home, plus tutors, to be the Jewish upbringing children receive. Now, i am not going to debate if Moriah's system is reasonable and if the figures should be adjusted, but this reality of 2 or 3k off a child, if making under 200k without need for scholarship application is very reasonable. Honestly, I think asking any middle income person to come up with $1,500+ a month per child for tuition, $2k+ if in HS, is so absurd when we analyze our true take home pay and net post-taxes / necessities. The system cannot sustain itself. Honestly, i know many at HeAtid that are there for "9k" only and due to pressure about PS, were hoping for Shalom, but are at HeAtid for now. They NEED relief ASAP. I hate to use middle-class income when under 250k, but yes, anyone with kids in BC JDS needs relief if earning under 250k. When you run the numbers, a HeAtid high may be a band-aid...I know many families paying HeAtid preschool tuition last year that struggled still. So, they were not on scholarship at 10k or 12k at a yeshiva, but the 9k was still hard.
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
I think the large donors will donate as usual. The families that can donate mildly, will do so. I think the ones that can afford tuition, without abatement, will stay at status. However, the family making 200k, or 225, that is getting 10 or 25% scholarship anyway, the environment will change if there was a simple form to fill out, show w-2 and abate. Right now, many do not apply for scholarship because of the process...but they want some relief. Scholarship receptions can be renamed the scholarship / abatement fund. It is basically the same pool of donations, but i think this is one step that must be added to the formula. If people do not move to public, this system will be a breath of fresh air and a reality check within the administration of the institutions.
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
That is interesting...I know several schools that are "legacy" bad programs according to some in town but have raised more money at their scholarship dinners / programs the past 2-3 years then at any point in history? I guess that fact refutes you Peter.
This is all abour priorities, isnt' it? Somehow you never hear anyone question the need for another shul. We got an awful lot of those. For what? To make sure we have a place for minyan and shiruim three times a day. Have one big building in Bergenfield and a three or four in Teaneck and g'nug. How many buidling and rabbi salaries should we be paying? What about camps? There are whole slew of other financial priorities migh want to consider -- ever been to a 500 person wedding around these parts? Ever hear about the Summer programs to Israel, Alaska, China. Somehow those don't come under so much scrutiny. Why do we want to jeopardize the quality of our most important educational instiutitons by going for a default standard of vocational chevy type schools? Maybe it's because some people really don't care too much about education? This is all just a question of priorities.
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 609 weeks ago

"default standard of vocational chevy type schools?"

You think bc a school charges more that this means they are providing a better product than a school that charges less?
1 reply · active 609 weeks ago
Peter: "The large donors are drying up. They rightfully no longer want to throw good money after a bankrupt educational system. "

If that's true, there goes the heatid model right down the toilet. They are the best example of living off Avi Chai and donor welfare.
Your logic is flawed. Specifically since He'Atid IS sustainable, big donors are interested.
Someone tell me what's so wrong with doing what the Mormon's do?? They are a pretty insular community and it's working for them.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765603214/Hebr...
Daniel Rosen's avatar

Daniel Rosen · 609 weeks ago

Guest1 - I have had no luck loading that website from my phone but I can tell you why I prefer a yeshiva to a public school. I appreciate the public school system but the educational experience I want for my kids would not be legal. I want there to be constant integration of Judaic concepts even in secular classes and informal programming . I want the Jewish atmosphere to be pervasive and, yes, insular. I want students to see (or be shown) the echoes of kodesh in Chol and even Chol in kodesh. I want a relationship between the two ends of the dual curriculum which mirrors how I want my kids to lead their lives - imbued with a complexand iintertwined identity seeing religion and secular facts as more than complementary but as invested in each other. This is not what I can expect from a public school no matter how good.
10 replies · active 608 weeks ago
The person who posted about the Chevy and the Lexus got it right. The Chevy dealer doesn't claim to be best-in-class, nor does the salesperson at Target or the reservations clerk at the Holiday Inn. If He'atid and its followers just stuck to the truth (trade lower quality for lower cost), people could make their own rational decisions, and the rhetoric would die down. Personally, I'll still elect to pay for education and cut back in other areas.
9 replies · active 608 weeks ago
I guess it's just a question of how you define "competitive" or "lower quality". The A's have finished over .500 only 9 times in the last 20 seasons, and haven't won a single pennant during that period. Good luck at He'Atid!
The only people who think Jewish education is high quality are people associated with the schools. People without bias overwhelmingly think the schools are failing. I'm not just talking a out unaffordable which is obvious. I'm saying the schools aren't particularly good even for the all the money we throw at it.
1 reply · active 607 weeks ago
am rosenfeld's avatar

am rosenfeld · 608 weeks ago

"I want students to see (or be shown) the echoes of kodesh in Chol and even Chol in kodesh. I want....

Dan - Legacy high schools frequently give lip service to your poetic notion that in their esteemed buildings and hallways Kodesh and Chol are intertwined (our family certainly bought into this). In reality even well respected administrators can lose sight of this lofty ideal and act in ways which detract the Kodesh from the Chol.
Public schools (in the middot department) are not all bad and Yeshivot are not all good & visa versa. As a graduate of Yeshvia of Flatbush H.S, in the late 70's, I'm all for providing the present generation of kids with a full time Hebrew day school education rich in a love of Yehadut and Tziyonut but not if it places undue financial burden on families in our community. Kol Hakavod to leaders such as Mr. Distenfeld who are seeking to turn what is currently an unsustainable day school system into a sustainable one and improve the quality of education in the process.
2 replies · active 608 weeks ago
Avi- Don't let the naysayers get to you. They are just trying to convince themselves that they are getting good value for the thousands of extra dollars they shell out per kid on an annual basis. There's a phsycological term for this.
1 reply · active 608 weeks ago
Any one remotely considering public school should take a look at the teaneck community charter school (tccsnj.org). We send our older daughter to a legacy and after much debate we decided to let our son try the charter school for k so i could be home with our baby. We have been so thrilled with the school that we decided to keep him there for 1st. Academically the school is light years ahead of the legacies. The building is beautiful, class size is limited to 17 kids with 2 teachers. Ejs caters lunch on a daily basis for all the kosher kids in the school. As far as Judaic studies go we send him to chabad in tenafly for hebrew school and he has a private tutor 1 day a wk. My husband also takes him to father and son learning every week and spends time learning with him a couple times a week.
I'm still waiting for Rabbi Krauss to send an attack letter to Scott Goldberg based on his public talk about how Jewish education is failing. Forget Gershon, here's an educator saying what is so obvious to most of us!
The idea that We should take the HeAtid's ideas for improving Jewish Education and incorporate it into existing schools is just silly. It is axiomatic that it is much harder to transform an existing school than to build one from scratch. Transforming an existing school require lots of politicking with both donors and teachers, which you do not have when you try to build a school from scrach.
Questions's avatar

Questions · 608 weeks ago

When is He'Atid planning to provide greater transparency into their financial model? Wasn't transparency a core tenant of the model?

How is He'Atid planning to measure quality? There must be some objective way of assessing how the education compares to other cheaper and more expensive options.

Let's eliminate the debate and recriminations and just get the facts.
Truth1: "The idea that We should take the HeAtid's ideas for improving Jewish Education and incorporate it into existing schools is just silly"

Of course it is. Why would anyone incorporate ideas from a school started by a junk bond trader that is living on subsidies and has the vast experience of running a kindergarten for a year?

Thanks for a good laugh!
End Welfare's avatar

End Welfare · 608 weeks ago

"Thanks for a good laugh!"

I'll take the "bond trader" over the "esteemed" Rabbis and Winthrops who have been running the legacy schools the past few decades and under whose watch legacy schools became unaffordable to the middle class.

Thanks for playing Steve!
I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I saved 5k on kindrgarden this year and it was better than any legacy school. So yes, the schools should be copying HeAtid.
Questions's avatar

Questions · 608 weeks ago

How do you know if the education or the quality of He'Atid is better? The school is in a unique position to start measuring its performance right from the start. Not just on how cheap it can be but also on the quality of its product. Why debate what can be proven with data? If you are saving 5k but your child is falling behind their peers at other schools then who cares. I'd beg and borrow to make sure my kid has the best chances possible in this incredibly competitive world we live in. Perhaps if He'Atid started publishing its results the others schools would follow suit and end the debate if cheap is just as good.
Been there Done that's avatar

Been there Done that · 608 weeks ago

I agree with Steve. The legacy schools have been in business for well over 100 combined years and have educated thousands over students each year. To think that heatid has anything to show them is rather moronic.

Look at it this way. Suppose you were scheduled for surgery. You have a team of respected doctors who advise a certain procedure that has been successful thousands of times. Then along comes some businessman who read a couple of books of new surgical techniques and tries to convince you to try something new. The kicker is that his method is moderately cheaper than conventional surgery. Would anyone take his advice?

I am frankly amazed here at the few parents who have been taken in by a guy with zero educational experience who is purporting to tell us that they are wrong and he is right. I strongly suspect that most of them would send to a charter school if they could. The point is, what price do our children have to us? The Torah speaks at some people who's money is more precious to them than their lives or their children. Until I saw this from the postings on this blog, it was hard to believe that people like that exist. However, I now realize that is unfortunately true.

I'm not going to argue over the high cost of education. Unfortunately, it is high everywhere, including public school, with the the difference being that PS charges no tuition. However, the costs are still there. I also understand what an incredible burden this is on parents. However, what I don't understand is how parents failed to realize this before they moved here. Teaneck/Englewood is a very expensive place to live. There are cheaper places like Brooklyn and Staten Island. Trying to live here in order to go on fabulous vacations and build new kitchens at the expense of our children is just so wrong on so many levels. If you don't see this, I'm really sorry.
2 replies · active 258 weeks ago

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