Below is an email sent out today by Gershon Distenfeld:
You are receiving this e-mail because you have a child entering 7th grade at a Yeshiva Day School in Bergen County. As we cobbled together e-mail addresses from various sources which are certainly incomplete, please forward this to others who may be interested.
Allow us to introduce ourselves. My name is Gershon Distenfeld and for the past several years, I have been heavily involved in efforts to make Yeshiva education better and more affordable. I have previously served on the executive board of the Rosenbaum Yeshiva of North Jersey and am currently the chairman of the board of Yeshivat He’Atid.
Jeff Kiderman is the executive director of the Affordable Jewish Education Project (AJE), a 501c(3) organization that was started in 2011 by a group of community leaders and philanthropists to find and implement innovative and sustainable initiatives to ensure that a high-quality, affordable Jewish day school education is available to every child. You can learn more about AJE at www.ajeproject.org
Jeff and I have been working together on a number of initiatives over the past couple of years but we have yet to tackle the overwhelming issues with Yeshiva High Schools from an affordability and an educational perspective.
It is well known that a Yeshiva High School education will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100k for 4 years in after-tax dollars. We simply need more affordable options.
At the same time, the world has changed over the past couple of decades in dramatic ways and our children are not learning many of the skills they will need to be successful in the 21st century. And on the Judaic side, too many kids graduate High School uninspired as a one size fits all curriculum just isn’t appealing to many of our youth. Simply put, we are failing to inspire a love of Yiddishkeit in the overwhelming majority of our children.
No doubt some of you reading this are happy with both the price and quality of the current crop of Yeshiva High Schools. You can stop reading this now and we wish you only hatzlacha sending your child to one of the many excellent Yeshiva High Schools in our community using traditional teaching methods.
For those willing to entertain a completely redesigned Yeshiva High School (with the added benefit of being a fraction of the price), please read on.
AJE has just completed a survey of over 600 high school children, the summary of which can be downloaded here - http://ajeproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/High-School-Survey-Results.pdf
General Conclusions were:
1. Students are different and want different things
2. Students are interested in learning, but they want to have a say in what they learn
3. Students want to learn actively (projects, discussions, etc.) rather than passively (lectures, textbooks, etc.)
4. Students hate tests and think they are useless
5. Students want to learn collaboratively in small groups
Is it any wonder that many of our children don’t have positive feelings towards Yeshiva High School? Should it surprise us that so many of our children can go through 12+ years of Yeshiva day school education and have little or no passion for their Yiddishkeit? Are we preparing our children for a 21st century economy where mere knowledge has been commoditized and collaboration, critical thinking, and communication skills (among others) will determine their success in life?
We could go on and on. We don’t just need to tweak the way we go about Jewish high school education – we need an overhaul. We need a program that is much more flexible, is much more student centered, gives our children the new skills that they will need to succeed in life, and fosters a love of Yiddishkeit.
These programs already exist in the secular world and have been very successful. But we believe that the opportunity to do better is even greater on the Judaic side.
We would like to start a new high school in September 2015 that will not only provide an innovative and outstanding Yeshiva education in an affordable manner, but will change the face of Jewish education and be a model to be copied throughout the country (and beyond).
We are extremely confident that a superior and more cost effective high school program can be created. Since discussing this broad idea with numerous educators both inside and outside of the community, we have been inundated with requests from professional educators to work on and/or lead this project.
But we also know that parents have opinions on what is important to them in a high school - religiously, academically, and socially. We would like to take those views into account when designing this high school, as well as the opinions of high school students themselves. We also want to gauge how much demand there would be for such a school, because something like this cannot happen unless parents like yourselves will actually be willing to consider signing up your children.
To that end, we will be hosting several focus groups over the next few weeks so that we can get a good gauge of the types of issues parents are concerned about.
Please go to https://docs.google.com/forms/d/168F6_3r6U2EMdaFk10FSGoHWo2fxo9IZkvv64i_bs5w/viewform to indicate your availability to attend one of these meetings. We will then reach out to you to confirm your participation in one of them. If you are not interested in attending any of these meetings, you can still sign-up to receive future updates on this initiative.
To answer one question (among many) that you probably have: At this point we are open to designing programs for just boys, just girls or co-ed and would be happy to start more than one or even all three. All will be based on the demand.
We are really excited about the opportunity to reimagine Jewish high school for the 21st century. A broad range of perspectives is critical to designing the best possible program. We look forward to hearing from you and partnering with you as we move forward on this groundbreaking endeavor.
Gershon Distenfeld
Jeff Kiderman
Wednesday, July 17, 2013
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Charlie · 610 weeks ago
End Welfare · 610 weeks ago
Charlie · 610 weeks ago
Been there Done that · 610 weeks ago
In any case, I wish Distenfeld and Kiderman hatzlacha going forward.
Charlie · 610 weeks ago
Been there Done that · 610 weeks ago
OK, you say I'm wrong. Please show me proof of the following:
1. That they have "big money backing this". (Your words, not mine)
2. "You know for a fact that all schools are very concerned". Really? Please tell us all EXACTLY whom you spoke to at each individual school that shows they are "extremely concerned". I want names or emails. Without that, I don't think you know anything. Probably more wishful thinking on your part.
Maybe you're connected with the school. Who knows? Unless you can provide proof of your rather bold statements, no one has any reason to believe you.
Miami Al · 610 weeks ago
Best of luck to them.
Daniel Rosen · 610 weeks ago
as one of the teachers I have to wonder -- did you visit my class and I missed it? You seem to be telling me what I am doing in the classroom with such authority and yet, I haven't seen you around the building. The varied pedagogy, dynamic curricula and methods of assessment with which I am surrounded compose a rich tapestry, adopting the cutting edge while not jettisoning time honored and successful approaches. My classroom, and the classrooms of the people I am lucky enough to work with challenge students by shifting modalities, incorporating technology, focusing on modern skills and real world application of thinking skills from all across Bloom's taxonomy.
So please, before you bemoan a system as archaic, please try to visit and experience first hand at how hard we, as professionals, work to figure out what should be taught, to whom, how and why.
End Welfare · 610 weeks ago
Ironic that you are posting how "hard" you work in the midst of a 2.5 month summer vacation.......
Daniel Rosen · 610 weeks ago
And just a couple of questions stemming from your statement:
1. do you expect that the teachers of any new school to work year round?
2. do you think that any teacher's taking vacation during the summer is a mark of an archaic or ineffective system?
Anyway, I'd love to chat more, but I'm also doing some online reading about curricular design and the push to balance STEM intensive programming with liberal arts while also researching material to help develop classes which integrate Talmudic study into my English class. So, bye.
Daniel Rosen · 610 weeks ago
antigone2 22p · 610 weeks ago
ROTFL · 610 weeks ago
Steve · 610 weeks ago
ROTFL · 610 weeks ago
Educatoe · 610 weeks ago
Ben · 610 weeks ago
Guest 2 · 610 weeks ago
My yeshiva high school education for sure failed me in the yidishkeit department but it did NOT in the college prep and being ready for the real world.
In fact, I would say my high school set me up for the success I have now. Double curriculum, gazillions of tests and papers due at the same time, extra curriculars taught me to prioritized my work, time management, how to deal with stress of deadlines Etc. these are real world things that I need to deal with in my personal and professional life on a daily basis.
Honestly, college was a breeze for me as a result compared to my public school friends. I had my study skills and time management skills in place so I could focus more on the interpersonal skills, team work, collaboration and be involved in more "clubs" where I learned more about extra things I was interested in. I was able to have different internship experiences each semester and summer. That was way more valuable on my résumé.
I'm all for starting a lower cost option but once again GD takes the approach of bashing the current schools that are pumping out successful students. This email he sent is appalling. Just open a new school by emphasizing the positive elements without needing to bash everything he sees as a negative in these successful college prep schools.
In all honesty, after reading the results of the survey it seems like the kids are looking for vocational schools.... Learn real life hands on skills in a collaborative setting. Is that realistic to replace high school which is about college prep?
ROTFL2 · 610 weeks ago
Yeshiva_Dad 69p · 610 weeks ago
End Welfare · 610 weeks ago
Miami Al · 610 weeks ago
Daniel Rosen: it sounds like you are using modern educational techniques in your English class, that's great to hear. A few of the schools here have tried to adopt the local gifted math curriculum, and the non-Orthodox JDS have followed the secular private schools in hooking up with certain after school enrichment programs. The secular side isn't the problem, at least here it's "decent public school" good, not top notch public school good, and certainly not prep school good, but it's not problematic.
On the religious side, I see a real drop off after elementary school. Even at the elementary school side, I'm shocked by how much of the Judaics seems like it's more arts and crafts... arts and crafts are great, but I'm not understanding why we have a 50%:50% day if we don't have that much material. At elementary level, we get a lot of memorization of Tefillot, which is useful to a point, and some basic Hebrew reading. I find that by middle and high school, I'm not seeing, at either the RW or LW schools, what I would expect from a prep school.
I'm summarizing something from the Lifestyle section of the paper, I'm sure it was spun by the school, but I'm giving an example. One of the local prep schools, in a renovation, basically put what amounted to a coffee shop in the school, a place filled with couches, WiFi, etc. If you have an off period (this school uses a 9 period day with 6 periods for class, so lunches/study hall/gym are throughout the day), or before/after school they can meet, using their laptops/ipads, and work on collaborative assignments. I'm sure that there is plenty of goofing off, but it's kind of neat to see high schoolers getting freedom, for 45 minutes/day, to act like college students and make choices, it's good preparation for after high school when you need to make choices about how to spend your time.
Perhaps your schools are better funded, I don't see ANYTHING like that in our local schools. Our local schools hold up decently when compared to public schools, they hold up horribly when compared to the prep schools.
In terms of your level of preparation compared to your classmates, I think more of that actually depends on your guidance department than anything else. If you get into a "reach school" - you're going to be ill prepared compared to classmates that are at a "safety school." If you attend Harvard, there are prep school kids with no business there with guidance departments and legacy connections, there are totally unprepared but talented kids from crappy schools with impressive extracurricular involvement, etc. There are brilliant students that excel at everything, and there are students that taught themselves to study 12 hours a day and perform above their IQ in high school and are suffering.
I mean, if you have 8 classes/day because of a religious/secular mix, you're going to find 4 college classes/semester easy. OTOH, if you had 7 secular classes plus a full work load of competitive extra curriculars, you'd also find 4 college classes/semester easy. The ones that struggle are the ones at a public school with 6 classes/day, one of which is an elective, so only had 5 classes/day and less than competitive EC activities because of funding.
I'm glad your schools are working for you, I'd like to see more options.
Working parent · 610 weeks ago
George · 610 weeks ago
People choose price all the time when it comes to college. Many go to public universities simply because they cost less. This is moving the concept to high school. We'd all love to send our kids to the best school possible but we can't all afford it. If they can make a quality high school that's at least in the range of the quality of the existing options for much less money then that's great and should be supported.
Daniel Rosen · 610 weeks ago
Free Market · 610 weeks ago
Steve · 610 weeks ago
Did Distenfeld and Kiderman use unethical tactics?
If so, were their actions criminal?
How does this reflect on Heatid itself?
Is Heatid going to dissociate itself from these actions?
Will Distenfeld apologize or resign?
JS_ · 610 weeks ago
I think an interesting thing to think about regarding a He'Atid high school is where you'd like your kids to end up in college. If you want your kid to go to YU or Stern, does it really make sense to pay $25k/year for high school when they will almost definitely get in by going to a high school that costs, for example, $15k/year? What exactly is that extra $10k/year buying you in that scenario? I think it's the same argument that was offered regarding He'Atid itself - what does it matter what grade school you send to if everyone ends up at the same yeshiva high schools anyway? I'd say the argument is the same for state colleges or other "non-reach" colleges. The biggest argument to not send there (or to wait for an established track record of success) is for a bright, motivated student who wants Ivy League or equivalent or some other reach college. There is, most likely, where the bang for the buck with the extra $10k/year is likely to matter.
Another issue raised by the email is exactly what the purpose is of our Judaic curriculum. Is the goal to impart a lot of knowledge? To impart a lifelong love of Orthodox Judaism? Both? My personal feeling is the current schools don't do either particularly well. I think most people end up with a lifelong love/commitment to Orthodox Judaism due to summer camp experiences and post-high school Israel experiences. The latter certainly has the most to do with imparting actual knowledge.
In terms of the "dual curriculum" I never felt I worked that hard for my Judaics classes in high school. There was hardly ever any homework and tests were not nearly as difficult as tests for English classes. For example, English was far harder than Ivrit and Chemistry and Math far more work and more difficult than any Gemara or Chumash class. I think the real difficulty of a dual curriculum is just being tired all of the time and not having enough hours in the day to do the work necessary for secular classes and extracurricular activities. Maybe there's value in that, but I'm not so certain.
End Welfare · 610 weeks ago
ROTFL · 610 weeks ago
Call me a cynic but I believe the authors of this letter will say whatever they have to in order to convince people to send to their school. Their mission is low cost - nothing else matters - not the quality of the education, not the yiddishkeit, not the results. This it what I find most disturbing.
Daniel Rosen · 610 weeks ago
Just saying.
EZF · 610 weeks ago
Dan Rosen · 610 weeks ago
1. Yeshiva HS costs too much -- true. No doubt about it. I haven't perused the books or tried to hire a forensic accountant to figure out how the finances work, but there are lots of people with finance backgrounds who work on the money side and I know that they seem to say that they are cutting as they can. If anyone can suggest ways of cutting costs (BOCES?) I'm sure many schools would jump on board.
2. A Yeshiva HS that costs less is a good idea -- well sure it is. But if, in order to achieve that savings, services and opportunities within the school are curtailed, will parents feel comfortable sending children to a school which offers less. That could mean larger classes, no clubs or sports, less well equipped labs. Who knows? But to reduce tuition, reduce expenditures. That can't be laid at the foot of any one thing, nor can there be substantial reductions in costs without a commensurate reduction in offered services. Often it is the chance to pursue the extras, or exploit these additional resources which allow a student to set him/herself apart in pursuit of college acceptance. Many parents are willing to pay in order to get what they see as certain benefits for their kids.
3. Students have a sense of entitlement and laxity in dress -- maybe, but I don't see that as coming from the schooling experience. We, as teachers, often have to work against that same sense.
4. A cheaper school will naturally be on the same level academically and will be able to address issues of religion etc. -- that, I just don't see. And I have seen nothing in any of the materials proffered by Y"Ha and the proposed HS which show me a better pedagogical or hashkafic route to making our kids somehow better. It is one thing to say that a new school will be cheaper. it is another to say it will be better. But it is a whole other thing to say it will be cheaper and better.
You say that there is no evidence that says that Y"Ha can't address both. Maybe there isn't. There is also no evidence that biting a cafeteria table will raise the tides in the Gulf of Mexico Where is the evidence that something WILL happen?
ROTFL · 610 weeks ago
"There is no evidence that says they cannot and, at the same time, history has shown that the current Yeshiva High Schools are not successfully addressing those issues." Well if you believe your basic premise above there there is significant proof that they can not do any better than you think the current schools are doing. Presumably none of the current schools aspire to fail but you think they are. Therefore, there is multiple points of evidence to say that a new school will not be any more successful and absolutely no evidence that they can be any better - even more so because they don't even relate their research or approach to any indication of why they think they will better on the yiddishkeit side.
Guest 2 · 610 weeks ago
You're not the first · 610 weeks ago
It cuts the tuition costs, your children won't have to take any classes they don't want to, there are basically no teachers......
Steve · 610 weeks ago
End Welfare · 610 weeks ago
I didn't think so....... I'm sure there are lots of haters who will post negative things, but none who would put their money where their mouth is bc they know GD will take care of business.
Steve · 610 weeks ago
ROTFL · 610 weeks ago
HappyAt Heatid · 610 weeks ago
I look forward to benefiting from the high school as well.
Reality Check · 610 weeks ago
Those of you who don't like it, how about proposing something else instead? What many people realize is that while nobody has all the answers, the status quo is suicide.
guest 4 · 610 weeks ago
Charlie · 610 weeks ago
reality ck · 610 weeks ago
I'm not disagreeing that a lower cost school is warranted and needed however it all depends on the administrators and lay leaders. Should the HS consist of the same caliber as YH, it will be a major failure -- just like YH will. Not because of cost or a lack of a building but the inefficient of those running the schools. I know several parents who pulled their kids from YH this summer to legacy schools.
GD should resign from the YH and focus his attention to one project. [ed: Personal attack deleted]. It's too bad because I think both schools are necessary.
guest 4 · 610 weeks ago
Been there Done that · 610 weeks ago
Is this a joke? Every educational study I have ever seen show that the MO yeshivas vastly outperform their public school counterparts. I would suggest that the problem is precisely the opposite: namely, that BECAUSE parents insisted on top notch secular and judaic studies plus enrichment programs plus resource room, etc etc, costs are high. The reality is, costs at public school in Teaneck are extremely high as well, and they obviously do not provide Judaic studies.
Heatid's model is simple: It has nothing to do with blended learning and flip models, and everything to do with more kids in a class and charity from Avi Chai and the rest of the community.
I can think of three possible solutions to this crisis, all of which have their own issues:
1. Increase class size to 30+ kids
2. Have the community be assessed a tax depending on wealth.
3. Have children enrolled in public school for secular studies and religious studies in the yeshiva. This will cut costs roughly in half.
Like I said, all these solutions have their positives and negatives. I have yet to see community leaders do much to solve this problem other than half hearted attempts to hold symposiums.
true impact · 610 weeks ago
1. Perhaps not same number of administrators, but we will still need an Administration and support staff.
2. Building
The savings comes with eliminating the secular teachers, but has one analyzed the cost to run a building, be it 4 hours a day or 9 hours a day? Has on added up how much we spend, on average, per bc yeshiva, on out of classroom personnel with limited in classroom involvement? Business office, main office, early childhood office, special ed office, middle school deputies, ec deputies and lower school deputies, etc...some schools may need legal size stationary soon to keep all out of classroom admins on their main letterhead.
guest 4 · 610 weeks ago
By and large, the competition for the college slots and the jobs we are looking for our children to land are not students of BC public schools or public schools in general. Rather they are private school students (or public schools in places like Scarsdale, etc). How do you think our kids compare to those kids getting into elite colleges? FYI, Scarsdale's HS averages $27k/student and 21 students/teacher.
Let me ask you a question. Your child gets into Harvard and Rutgers (and no financial aid is available) - which one do you sent your child to? My guess is that 90%+ of the people on this blog would gladly (and in my opinion, rightly) pay the tens of thousands of $'s more to send to Harvard. I think we all recognize that per dollar spent we would get a better "value" at Rutgers (after all, a degree is a degree), but overall, for the long term earning power of our child, the Harvard degree is worth a lot more. I am not comparing our current legacy schools to Harvard, but want to make the point that not every $ spent on education is worth the same.
Our current schools are by no means perfect and need to be greatly improved. The overall discussion our community needs to be focused on is how we can be improving our children's chances of success in an increasingly competitive world. This may involve reallocating resources, but should not be focused on how we can shave $'s off their educational costs to put more into our collective pockets.
Name TBD · 609 weeks ago
"We have been made aware that an email went out last week to the parents of our incoming seventh grade students using parents' Yavneh email addresses. We want to assure each of you that Yavneh Academy appreciates the trust that our families place in us and respects the personal information of our families. Yavneh does not share our families' personal information, including email addresses, and has a policy against that information being shared by others.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.
Eric Fremed, President
Joel Kirschner, Executive Director"